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War May Realign World And Define A Presidency
USA Today ^ | 03.17.03 | Susan Page

Posted on 03/17/2003 5:05:50 AM PST by ~Vor~

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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
A successful war, combined with evidence of WMD and the brutality of Saddam, along with grateful Iraqis will be the result.

It's far more likely that conservatives will be strengthened and twits like Germany's Schroeder will be tossed on their ear.

21 posted on 03/17/2003 5:55:58 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Guillermo
The 'right' governments in Europe are currently acting against their voters' wishes. It is expected that the voters will vote out governments that acted against their wishes.
22 posted on 03/17/2003 5:57:04 AM PST by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: ~Vor~
Step by step, Bush has moved toward the sweeping worldview of his most hawkish advisers:

Witnessing 3000 innocent civilians die in an inferno will do that to a person.

23 posted on 03/17/2003 5:59:02 AM PST by wayoverontheright
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
Do you think the voters wish to be subservient to France and Germany in the framework of the EU?

Thats what Spain, Italy and the UK would be doing if they cast their lots with Chirac.

You see Schroeders party losing election after election to the pro-USA CDU. Using your logic, he should be winning landslide after landslide.

Point is, the Iraq issue is not anywhere near the top of EU voters concerns. Whether they choose to be dominated by a Paris-Berlin axis is.
24 posted on 03/17/2003 6:04:30 AM PST by Guillermo (Sic 'Em)
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
Let's not forget that one of the unintended consequences of W's war would be making Europe even safer for socialism.... The EU will be strenghtened

Uhh, how will a Socialist EU be stronger? Have you been asleep for the past 80 years?

25 posted on 03/17/2003 6:05:26 AM PST by Mr. Bird
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To: Guillermo
Do you think the voters wish to be subservient to France and Germany in the framework of the EU?

The UN has a great chance of falling into irrelevance. The UN being France's only source of world power, they will find themselves out of power in the EU also.

Actions have consequences.

26 posted on 03/17/2003 6:09:43 AM PST by wayoverontheright
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To: ~Vor~
against the open opposition of longtime friends such as France, a comrade in arms since the days of the American Revolution.

This statement, is on it's face, correct. A closer look at our relationship with France will however show that she is our friend when it suits her aims. Only when pushed by her old enemies the British or the Germans does France remember to be our friend.

27 posted on 03/17/2003 6:14:49 AM PST by HoustonCurmudgeon (Compassionate Conservative Curmudgeon)
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To: js1138
Right after Iraq (attacked us in 1990, in Pittsburgh, IIRC), Vietnam (bombed Dallas), and North Korea (invaded South Central LA).
28 posted on 03/17/2003 6:23:52 AM PST by Teacher317
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To: HoustonCurmudgeon
France is always there when she needs us.
29 posted on 03/17/2003 6:24:24 AM PST by Teacher317
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To: Dog Gone
i agree with you...germany and france will be the biggest losers after saddam...the UK will go more conservative..italy will be italy ...and the east euros will be closer to us..and the good ol un will fall he he he ..am i a happy guy or what????
30 posted on 03/17/2003 6:31:00 AM PST by rrrod
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To: Mad Dawgg
Also... Viet Nam? Korea? Etc.

I believe we had a treaty with South Vietnam. It may have been semi-bogus, but it existed.

Korea was a U.N. operation, wasn't it?

31 posted on 03/17/2003 7:38:20 AM PST by js1138
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To: HoustonCurmudgeon
since the days of the American Revolution.

This statement, is on it's face, correct.

Didn't the French chop off the heads of the people who supported us in the Revolution?

32 posted on 03/17/2003 7:41:49 AM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
But in light of the statement below both meet the criteria and disprove the authors assertion! "It would be the first preventive war in U.S. history, the first time the nation has attacked without being struck first."
33 posted on 03/17/2003 7:52:53 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (French: old Europe word meaning surrender)
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
This whole premise you've posited is absurd on it's face.

"Safer for Socialism"? Yeah, right. The socialists right now, right at this very time frame, are at the pinnacle of their power and influence in Europe. The last dying gasps of a profane, unnatural and irresponsible theology will from this point on see diminishing returns, sometimes quite rapid and startling. Borne on the wings of revolution in the early 20th century, socialism seems doomed by a triad of competing political realities that it may never recover from.

This triad is (1) the realization, finally, that socialism doesn't work, never has, and never will; (2) the new Bush doctrine buffeting it from conservative (right-wing) governments in the US and in other states relavent to the region; and (3) the inexorable pressures from below from Islam.

Demographics do not favor the growth of socialism in Europe for the next 20 to 50 years. The area is caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place. The main features of this demographic Doppelgänger are declining birth rates and the immigration flood. Of course, if Europe fails to address these problems, making the Union safer for socialism will not only become the least of their problems, it may cease to be an option at all.

Blair may or may not be in trouble. As soon as the Frenchies expressed their desire to overrule anything British, his countrymen reverted to national instinct. Almost immediately support for both Blair and the war increased, and continues to do so even as we speak.

I'm getting a little tired of these "polls" that show a position's support at 70, 80, or even 90 percent, as Tim Russert belched yesterday. Where have you ever seen figures like that on anything, especially in Europe?!? Well, Bush I was at 91% after the first Gulf war, but what ever happened to him and that level of support? Clinton, in periods between elections, was in the 60's, but oddly never got to the coveted 50% in any national election. Hmmmm....

It is possible that in some areas figures could approach this level on the antiwar theme, but if that is truly the case, then the EU is in a lot more trouble than it, or most observers, realize. Being "anti" anything is not a good foundation for a union, especially one as ambitious as the EU. That's one reason I feel confident that that union is not going to make it. (Oh, there are lots of other ones, too, but we'll save them for another time.)

If all these "conservative" governments are in trouble in "socialist" Europe, how'd they get elected in the first place? While I agree that the constant (left-wing) media drumbeat does have an influence (it's worse over there than it is over here), it's awfully hard to ignore reality when you realize that the ass that the alligator just bit was yours. That's what determines elections, and that's what a lot of Euros will see when they look out their windows come election day.

"What is your position on the issues, and why should I support and vote for you?"

"I am against the Americans and all they have done to make our current lives a living hell."

"I see. Anything else?.

"I support Paris and Berlin forcing us to accede to their every whim and command. Other than that, no."

That sounds like a winning platform anywhere in Europe, save for France and (maybe) Germany. But trust me, they've already been written off.

When times are good, Europe, it seems, can fancifully entertain itself with Utopian dalliances. We are not, however, riding the crest of good times. That being the case, most of these states in question will either find leadership defined by their leaders, or their leaders will find it pushing up from below, in which case the current ruling cliques could (and probably will) find themselves on the outside looking in.

Yet, you believe the EU will be strengthened, and NATO weakened, eh? You're probably right about NATO. It's time appears to be coming to and end. Oh, it'll take a little while, but the handwriting is there on the wall for all to see.

The EU continues to survive, wheezing and groaning, in spite of itself, not because of it. And given the current divsions that are highlighting fizzures, fractures and splits that always existed but were thrust into the closet to impress the company, it shouldn't be too long before we see that frail entity go on life support.

You think this is a great job? I'll give my take on this. This current President, the illegitimite one who stooped to stealing an election, who is probably the most mentally incompetent man to ever sit in the Oval Office, who has no initiatives of his own, who relies on his daddy too much, who finds himself in a constant state of "eyes wide shut", knows exactly what he is doing. Like Secret Agent Maxwell Smart, he gives every impression (to the untrained eye) of beng an incompetent in way over his head, but by the end of the show we'll see he's turned out to be smarter than everyone else.

You just wait and see.

CA....

34 posted on 03/17/2003 7:57:00 AM PST by Chances Are (Whew! Seems I've once again found that silly grin!)
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To: js1138
Didn't the French chop off the heads of the people who supported us in the Revolution?

Well yes, but keep in mind that they too were French, so it should not count against them! ;-)

35 posted on 03/17/2003 7:58:54 AM PST by HoustonCurmudgeon (Compassionate Conservative Curmudgeon)
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To: *Bush Doctrine Unfold; Ernest_at_the_Beach
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list
36 posted on 03/17/2003 8:06:09 AM PST by Free the USA (Stooge for the Rich)
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To: ~Vor~
9/11 showed that containment can't ensure American security. I'm sure President Bush is imagining what might have happened had those planes contained nuclear bombs.

The big question is whether North Korea or Iran is next.

37 posted on 03/17/2003 8:10:58 AM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Guillermo
Schroeder lost a few local elections because he raised taxes after he promised not to. I will not be surprised if his party (the socialists) will win the next national election BECAUSE he stood up to W's pressure to support the war.
38 posted on 03/17/2003 8:14:45 AM PST by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: Chances Are
Spain, Portugal and Italy are not under socialist rule at this time. They are likely to be soon, because of their support of this war.
39 posted on 03/17/2003 8:15:49 AM PST by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: Chances Are
BUSH, knows exactly what he is doing

And I would add that those who are with us on this will see their fortunes improved. This anti-war move by the democrats will turn out to be the biggest disaster-gamble a political party has ever taken.

Bush did not take on this war without provocation, we were attacked. what is newly realligned is a world wide movement of the "non-country" international terrorists and their supporting nations (like Iraq). so it looks like we are going to war against a country, when actually we are going to war against terrorism.

Bush was the first president to be in a position to do something about this. (With 9-11 and majorities in both houses.) Of course Cllinton also had a chance to take on this role, but he had Monica to deal with and perhaps like his party, he had a willingness to lend aid and comfort to the terrorist supporting dictators of the world.

40 posted on 03/17/2003 8:57:37 AM PST by KC_for_Freedom
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