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Some pedigree for a "religion."

America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
New Link: Download 8 Mb zip file here (60 minute video)

Who is Steve Emerson?

1 posted on 03/16/2003 8:22:46 AM PST by JCG
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To: JCG
Hubbard's connection to Crowley is well known.

The one-stop shopping destination for Scientology debunking has to be Operation Clambake. Squick squick squick.

2 posted on 03/16/2003 8:25:43 AM PST by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
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To: JCG
Rumor has it that Scientology was actually based on a joke by L. Ron (a looneytune who was a subject-matter expert on looneytunes). He bet some friends of his that he could start his own religion, and that people would be stupid enough to believe it and practice its "tenets."
3 posted on 03/16/2003 8:27:36 AM PST by strela ("a' poppin' off at Pop's Sodium Shop")
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To: JCG
Here's an interview on Scamintology with Bob Minton before the body snatchers got to him:

Streaming Links

Windows Media version - RealPlayer version


4 posted on 03/16/2003 8:29:34 AM PST by agitator (Ok, mic check...line one...)
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To: JCG; All
Link to Paglia's article which I haven't read ... yet.


http://www.bu.edu/arion/paglia_cults00.htm
13 posted on 03/16/2003 9:03:53 AM PST by aculeus
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To: JCG
Alister Crowley: late 19th/early 20th cent. English magician/sourcerer/satanist who was a huge influence on philosophy of rock music bands and singers in 20th century and currently, along with the hippie movenent and general rebellion against God in our culture since the 1950-60's. Huge influence.
16 posted on 03/16/2003 9:11:14 AM PST by Gal.5:1 (fight the good fight)
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To: JCG; RnMomof7; xzins; drstevej; Wrigley; CCWoody; fortheDeclaration; Aquinasfan
http://www.steamshovelpress.com/sexandrockets.html

No discussion of Hubbard even makes sense without this book. It is illuminating.
18 posted on 03/16/2003 9:16:58 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg
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To: PsyOp; Carry_Okie; Avoiding_Sulla; Simcha7
http://www.bu.edu/arion/paglia_cults00.htm

Ping a ling... Check out this link, amazing...
21 posted on 03/16/2003 9:45:14 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: JCG
The easiest way to tell if this is a religion is to do the "hotel nightstand" test. Ask them to see their texts and hear their cathecism, beginning to end. You already know the Christians go out of their way to tell you EVERYTHING about their religion, look in any hotel nightstand for the essential text. Likewise, ask any member of a major religion what their beliefs are and you will be told, for free, sometimes for hours on end.

Now, go ask a Scientologist for thier beliefs. You'll be told that you must be "prepared" to hear all their secrets. And, of course, that preparation will cost you tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. Just to hear what they belive in.

Actually, since most cults don't cost anything to join, you are probably doing them a disservice to call Scientology one.

23 posted on 03/16/2003 9:48:47 AM PST by TomB
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To: JCG
From Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan of 1668:
Part III. Of a Christian Commonwealth.
Chap. xxxviii. Of Eternal Life, Hell, Salvation, and Redemption.

[12] And first, for the tormentors, we have their nature and properties exactly and properly delivered by the names of the Enemy (or Satan), the Accuser (or Diabolus), the Destroyer (or Abaddon). Which significant names (Satan, Devil, Abaddon) set not forth to us any individual person, as proper names do, but only an office or quality, and are therefore appellatives, which ought not to have been left untranslated (as they are in the Latin and modern Bibles), because thereby they seem to be the proper names of demons, and men are the more easily seduced to believe the doctrine of devils, which at that time was the religion of the Gentiles, and contrary to that of Moses, and of Christ.

[13] And because by the Enemy, the Accuser, and Destroyer, is meant the enemy of them that shall be in the kingdom of God, therefore if the kingdom of God after the resurrection be upon the earth (as in the former Chapter I have shewn by Scripture it seems to be), the Enemy and his kingdom must be on earth also. For so also was it in the time before the Jews had deposed God. For God's kingdom was in Israel, and the nations round about were the kingdoms of the Enemy; and consequently, by Satan is meant any earthly enemy of the Church.

Part IV. Of the Kingdom of Darkness
Chap. xlv. Of Demonology and other Relics of the Religion of the Gentiles.

[10] Another relic of Gentilism is the worship of images, neither instituted by Moses in the Old, nor by Christ in the New Testament; nor yet brought in from the Gentiles; but left amongst them, after they had given their names to Christ. Before our Saviour preached, it was the general religion of the Gentiles to worship for gods those appearances that remain in the brain from the impression of external bodies upon the organs of their senses, which are commonly called ideas, idols, phantasms, conceits, as being representations of those external bodies which cause them, and have nothing in them of reality, no more than there is in the things that seem to stand before us in a dream. And this is the reason why St. Paul says, "We know that an idol is nothing": not that he thought that an image of metal, stone, or wood was nothing; but that the thing which they honored or feared in the image, and held for a god, was a mere figment, without place, habitation, motion, or existence, but in the motions of the brain. And the worship of these with divine honour is that which is in the Scripture called idolatry, and rebellion against God. For God being King of the Jews, and His lieutenant being first Moses, and afterward the high priest, if the people had been permitted to worship and pray to images (which are representations of their own fancies), they had had no further dependence on the true God, of whom there can be no similitude; nor on His prime ministers, Moses and the high priests; but every man had governed himself according to his own appetite, to the utter eversion of the Commonwealth, and their own destruction for want of union. And therefore the first law of God was: they should not take for gods, alienos deos, that is, the gods of other nations, but that only true God, who vouchsafed to commune with Moses, and by him to give them laws and directions for their peace, and for their salvation from their enemies. And the second was that they should not make to themselves any image to worship, of their own invention.

Part IV. Of the Kingdom of Darkness
Chap. xlvii. Of the Benefit that proceedeth from such Darkness

Besides these sovereign powers, divine and human, of which I have hitherto discoursed, there is mention in Scripture of another power, namely, that of "the rulers of the darkness of this world," [Ephesians, 6. 12] "the kingdom of Satan," [Matthew, 12. 26] and "the principality of Beelzebub over demons," [Ibid., 9. 34] that is to say, over phantasms that appear in the air: for which cause Satan is also called "the prince of the power of the air";[Ephesians, 2. 2] and, because he ruleth in the darkness of this world, "the prince of this world": [John, 16. 11] and in consequence hereunto, they who are under his dominion, in opposition to the faithful, who are the "children of the light," are called the "children of darkness." For seeing Beelzebub is prince of phantasms, inhabitants of his dominion of air and darkness, the children of darkness, and these demons, phantasms, or spirits of illusion, signify allegorically the same thing. This considered, the kingdom of darkness, as it is set forth in these and other places of the Scripture, is nothing else but a confederacy of deceivers that, to obtain dominion over men in this present world, endeavour, by dark and erroneous doctrines, to extinguish in them the light, both of nature and of the gospel; and so to disprepare them for the kingdom of God to come.


24 posted on 03/16/2003 9:55:45 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: JCG
Hey JCG:

Your link doesn't work.

CGTGOC
25 posted on 03/16/2003 9:58:21 AM PST by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton
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To: JCG
In a nutshell, what are the beliefs, tenets and liturgies of Scientology?
26 posted on 03/16/2003 10:01:08 AM PST by Diddley (FR is a truth-seeking site. Some of us are learners; some of us are teachers.)
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To: JCG
I like Hubbard's fiction. Battlefield Earth was great, the movie was TERRIBLE. Final Blackout is really good too. And the Mission Earth series, while being a bit silly at times, wasn't bad either.

I've read some of Hubbard's Dianetics - this bit of fiction is no good.

27 posted on 03/16/2003 10:02:15 AM PST by realpatriot71 (legalize freedom!)
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To: JCG
I don't know about Satanic but the "1000 yard stare" Scientologists I've known were in effect brainwashed.

They ambushed me out in Boulder in 1978 off the street. I hadn't a clue what they were up to until they asked me to come up to their office and take all these tests.

Real nuts. They love to give as intimidating a stare as possible.
37 posted on 03/16/2003 11:11:45 AM PST by wardaddy (careful of the black flag....those threads are nasty)
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To: JCG
bump
39 posted on 03/16/2003 11:36:28 AM PST by OperationFreedom (Is a RECOVERING demoncrap that supports a liberal still a demoncrap? You decide......)
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To: JCG
Satanim can't be any worse than the cultist programming that goes on in Scientology. Trying to link one to the other is akin to comparing the white stuff from the black stuff in chicken excrement. It's all chicken sh!t. Why bother?
40 posted on 03/16/2003 12:40:55 PM PST by gcruse (When choosing between two evils, pick the one you haven't tried yet.)
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To: JCG

44 posted on 03/16/2003 8:08:54 PM PST by Coleus (RU-486 Kills Babies)
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To: JCG
Here's the whole Paglia paper on cults, Cults and Cosmic Consciousness, ten short chapters long and quite interesting.
48 posted on 03/16/2003 8:51:11 PM PST by beckett
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To: JCG
Who would you trust more a Scientologist or a muslim?
49 posted on 03/16/2003 8:56:11 PM PST by KevinDavis (Ad Astra!)
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To: JCG
I find it laughable that after 50 years the media still refers to Crowley as a Satanist when he didn't even believe Satan exists. I'll probably get heckled, but what the hell, not like anyone here hasn't already made up their minds.

Regardless of what people think of Crowley, the premise of this article is dead wrong. Crowley greatly disliked Hubbard and publicly stated so to at least 3 different people. Here is one example:

"About J.W.P.[Jack Parsons] - all that I can say is that I am sorry - I feel sure that he had fine ideas, but he was led astray firstly by Smith, then he was robbed of his last penny by a confidence man[conman] named Hubbard."
- Aleister Crowley, October 1946
50 posted on 03/16/2003 9:13:54 PM PST by thedugal
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To: JCG

55 posted on 03/17/2003 8:51:16 AM PST by Liberal Classic (Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est.)
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