Great wide open (source) [Massachusetts snubs Microsoft]

Mass High Tech ^ | 03/10/2003 | Elizabeth Dinan

[Fractal Trader]

I recently talked with the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. They are deadly serious about using open source and open office alternatives. For most clerical tasks (let's face it, most bureacrats are glorified paper pushers) this should be a no brainer.

Microsoft does not seem to get the dire situation posed by their high per seat costs and new licensing model. If this takes hold, the nationwide effect could be enornmous. I wonder what the tech-friendly (and Microsoft-hating) state of California is up to? Or are they to busy trying to protect Davis from impeachment to consider doing something as major as this?

[Jumper]

Why don't he just have his folks study the Microsoft Professional Development Products out there; after all, network administrators get paid the big bucks because they have the Knowledge, which is the power. This guy has his head up his A** if he thinks folks can use LINUX or UNIX without training.... Lets just bask Microsoft. As for the licensing of the product, you get your money's worth.

[LoneRangerMassachusetts]

Why is it that most Microsoft haters talk like socialists? Could it be that the attack against Microsoft is more of one against capitalism than against real productivity gain? That’s the case in Massachusetts where Attorney General Scott Harshbarger, a closet socialist, has hounded Microsoft for years. Just as the socialists ratcheted up the rules of nuclear power generation and overwhelmed the industry until it closed, they are on the path to do the same with Microsoft. Just as we were then stuck with a second rate source of power, we will be stuck with a lesser operating system collecting taxes.

Our saving grace will be governments using an ever increasing crappy operating system as the one used by business improves. Anyone who thinks Linux is going to improve all by itself is nuts. So far, Linux has had the benefit of catching up. Wait until they try and bear the costs of research, independent development, and the like. They have no real cadre of thinkers under an effective industrial leader. Industries make great strides forward under strong leaders. The caveat for the rest of us is a Massachusetts Department of Revenue relying on a crappy system. Maybe they will just have to depend upon business for good answers.

[Reeses]

Wait until they try and bear the costs of research, independent development, and the like.

Do you own Microsoft stock? Open source software is very high quality and the design is not junked up by a marketing department. Most successful proprietary software companies stay in business by marketing junky software and making the profit on the upgrade and maintenance of it. The software companies that produce open source quality software tend to go out of business, there's no money in doing a good job.

Still, I think Massachusetts is just trying to negotiate a better deal from Microsoft. People who really want to use Linux wouldn't even be talking to Microsoft.

[Cpu]

I've got Redhat 8.0 running on a box on the other side of the room. Just giving it a try. My impression so far is positive. I'm bothered by Microsoft's need to pack every feature into every release. Seems inelegant. $100 bucks for an OS to run on a box that costs $100 doesn't make sense.

I don't need or want to drive a goldplated Escalade pimpmobile.

cpu

[ikka]

This guy has his head up his A** if he thinks folks can use LINUX or UNIX without training

Lots of word processing and spreadsheet tasks can be done with out knowing Linux. Have you ever checked out StarOffice or OpenOffice?

And custom apps are either web-based or terminal apps (text mode) which again, hide any platform differences between the OS'es.

Further, you statement "you get what you pay for" -sometimes you don't - just ask anyone who bought a Pontiac Aztek.

[Question_Assumptions]

The problem is that Microsoft is behaving as if it were a monopoly by making increasing demands on consumers -- demands that consumers don't like. You do want competition and choice, don't you, or do you think Microsoft is entitled to our money?

Our saving grace will be governments using an ever increasing crappy operating system as the one used by business improves.

Is your claim that Linux is actually getting worse over time? Evidence?

Anyone who thinks Linux is going to improve all by itself is nuts. So far, Linux has had the benefit of catching up. Wait until they try and bear the costs of research, independent development, and the like. They have no real cadre of thinkers under an effective industrial leader.

You mean like email, which was invented by Microsoft? Oh, wait. Both sendmail and DNS are open source. Or the Web, which was invented by Microsoft? Oh, wait. That was a bunch of academics and Mosaic originally ran under X-Windows before Windows 3.1 even had a decent TCP/IP stack (speaking of TCP/IP...). Do some reading on Microsoft's direction before they realized that they couldn't fight the Internet (which started out as an academic/government/DoD project).

Name one real innovation that came from Microsoft's "real cadre of thinkers".

That's not the say that innovation doesn't come from industry (windows, mice, OOP from Xerox Parc, Unix from Bell Labs, etc.). But expecting Microsoft to use a "real cadre of thinkers" to innovate just flies in the face of history.

[Jumper]

Do the training, know and understand the OS, the Apps, and the tools like Knowledgebase - and be professional enough to care about the results.... Anything less plus LUNIX/Star Office, etc., and 10,000 open source guru's to depend on too unstructured for my endeavors. I've never met a competent MCSE who would jump on LUNIX.

[ShadowAce]

End user training on Linux? -- None

End user training on Apps? -- Minimal as OpenOffice/StarOffice are similar enough, they'll know what they're doing.

Linux GUI? -- Again, minimal. They know what the Start menu is? They can find it under KDE or Gnome.

I've never met a competent MCSE.

Fixed it for you.

[TechJunkYard]

The caveat for the rest of us is a Massachusetts Department of Revenue relying on a crappy system.

That's precisely what they have now -- Windows 95. They really need to upgrade, but Microsoft products are just too expensive. They want an alternative. If Microsoft won't bend, Microsoft will lose the business.

Capitalism at work. Nothing socialistic about it.

[Bush2000]

Lots of word processing and spreadsheet tasks can be done with out knowing Linux. Have you ever checked out StarOffice or OpenOffice?

Crap.

[Bush2000]

End user training on Linux? -- None End user training on Apps? -- Minimal as OpenOffice/StarOffice are similar enough, they'll know what they're doing. Linux GUI? -- Again, minimal. They know what the Start menu is? They can find it under KDE or Gnome.

It's this kind of Fantasyland nonsense that convinces me that OSS people have been sniffing a little too much glue...

[Bush2000]

Is your claim that Linux is actually getting worse over time? Evidence?

Here ya go: Study: Linux' Security Problems Outstrip Microsoft's.

[ShadowAce]

OK. Prove it. What kind of OS training does the average user need?

Train the user on some of the minor differences OpenOffice/StarOffice has with MS Office--those are minimal

And KDE (at least) has a "windows" theme to make it look exactly like Windows.

I also believe that a city or two in Florida has converted painlessly to Linux--several hundred end users--with minimal training. There's my proof. If you like, I could probably find the articles covering that conversion.

Now you show me where it's difficult (and I'll show you my 7 year old son who loves my Linux machine).

[TechJunkYard]

I think he asked for evidence, not a bought-and-paid-for "study".

[ikka]

Keep on trying, your "side" is losing.

The reality is that OpenOffice can open and edit Word97 documents (created in Word97) that WordXP crashes and locks up the system on. This has happened to me on two different Word97 documents, created on completely separate and distinct machines.

Eventually it will become more and more clear that "the smart money" is investing in Linux, while "the stupid money" is locked into MS due to inertia or previous bad business decisions.

[TechJunkYard]

[Bush2000]

OK. Prove it. What kind of OS training does the average user need? Train the user on some of the minor differences OpenOffice/StarOffice has with MS Office--those are minimal

Keep trolling. There's no point in my arguing the obvious with someone who won't even acknowledge that retraining is a factor in any company's migration from one OS and/or one office productivity suite to another.

[Bush2000]

I think he asked for evidence, not a bought-and-paid-for "study".

You guys are so transparent. Every time that an independent study shows that Emperor Linus is wearing no clothes, you try to pin blame on MS. Sorry, no sale. Show me proof that MS "bought-and-paid-for" this study. But I'm already prepared for the answer, since I've asked you to do produce proof (to no avail) numerous times in the past. The best you could muster was a limp-wristed bluster that, since Aberdeen has a few articles favorable to MS on its website, it is therefore a MS shill; of course, the idiocy of that argument is that there are an equal number of articles favorable to Linux...

[Bush2000]

Keep on trying, your "side" is losing.

If losing means I get to keep raking in money hand-over-fist from my customers, I'll take losing; meanwhile, you and your buddies can help win one for the Gipper by donating your time and energy into making Communist Red Flag Linux a more lethal killing product for the Chinese military...