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To: Pitchfork; supercat; Jeff Head; Grampa Dave; Travis McGee
Paine in his treatise on Defensive War was not so enamored of arms as he seems: ‘The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. [This is where you so usefully end your quote] but he goes on! ....The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not others dare not lay them aside' .... Pitchfork

I believe I speak for most Second Amendment types (your term) when I say that we are not enamored of arms (and neither was Thomas Paine). What we are enamored of -- and dedicated to preserving, at all costs -- is the concept of the right of self defense against a government which has the potential (and makes frequent use of it) to usurp our individual liberties. And to that end, our final, no-other-option-remaining defense will be the (reluctant, but no less determined) use of arms. All of us hope we will never have to use that defense against agents of our own government, but we will – if pushed to do so.

As for Paine’s comment that .... the balance of power is the scale of peace .... the same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike, I believe you would be hard-pressed to find a Second Amendment type who would disagree with that statement. We are not enemies of peace (far from it). We dream of it just as much as the current crop of useful idiot protestors do. The only difference is that we are realists. They are generally either hopeless idealists, or dupes.

As Paine asserts, if we lived in a world ‘destitute of arms,’ owning a gun for self defense would be all but unnecessary. But would mankind, and its governments, then be able to settle all disputes, and claim all territory, through rational, logical, common sense debate and dialogue? I think not.

As sure as you and I are breathing, there would be those in this world who would seek to use clubs and stones in order to dictate to, or enslave, others. History is replete with such examples. It’s the nature of man – some are inherently more domineering, and see themselves as destined to wield power over others. (In Paine’s own words: ‘The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian.’) And it is the natural right of those good men to retain the means to preserve their liberties against such types. In such a world [barren of guns], we realistic, Second Amendment types would no doubt be determined to preserve our God-given right to keep and bear clubs and stones, because the power-hungry type would be just as determined to use them to enslave us.

So, choose your degree of defensive weapons: clubs and stones, firearms, nuclear/chemical/biological weapons of mass destruction …. there will always be men, and civilizations, ready and willing to use them to enslave others. And there will always be others (your Second Amendment types) who will fight to their dying breath to retain their ability to defend themselves against the power-mongers – with commensurate weaponry.

History has proven that any attempt to remove defensive weapons from a free populace simply results in that populace’s enslavement, because the scoundrels who deem it their destiny to control the common man then gain the upper hand.

Tom Paine was waxing utopian philosophical -- as we all do, now and then -- in his 'a world destitute of arms' statement. But note that he comes back down to earth in its conclusion: ‘but since some will [possess arms], others dare not lay them aside.’

In not giving credence, or emphasis, to that last all-important portion of his statement, it seems to me that you [inadvertently, I am sure] have also made the same case that we Second Amendment types have been trying to get you to acknowledge. (I thank you for that ... and so would Mr. Paine.)

330 posted on 03/16/2003 1:19:50 PM PST by joanie-f (Comment vous dites ‘le skunk ungrateful’ en français? Wie sagen Sie ‘ungrateful Hund’ auf Deutsch?)
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To: joanie-f
Beautifully said as usual, Joanie.
346 posted on 03/17/2003 6:24:43 PM PST by SiliconValleyGuy
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