Pope John Paul II may ask to personally address UN Security Council to stop Iraq war

AFP via Babelfish translation ^ | March 3, 2003

[BlessedBeGod]

What's anti-catholic about stating some facts about the failures of the church?

There's absoluely nothing wrong with stating some facts about the failures of the Church. Catholic FReepers have done so for over a year now in regards to the priest scandal, both in this and the Religion forums. It was the inflammatory, troll-like manner in which it was said that was objectionable.

[onedoug]

Pacifism facilitates evil.

[Notwithstanding]

amen

[Notwithstanding]

Your statement means nothing. It is true and false.

Sometimes, pacifism does facilitate evil - as does a bellicose attitude.

Sometimes, pacifism prevents evil - as does a bellicose atitude.

Often, we will never know exactly what either posture actually facilitats or prevents, thus such mindless sloganeerign is no better than the mindless sloganeering of the leftish ones ("give peace a chance" "make love not war" etc.)

[Just mythoughts]

Whoa -- Caught my attention Wilsonian speech.

Got any specifics?
Didn't see the other thread.

So who is the "Colonel House" of the Bush administration?

[onedoug]

I disagree. Pacificism may prevent evil if one is dealing with decency to begin with, such as Ghandi with the British, or the efforts of Martin Luther King, by which right and good prevailed essentially because the outreach was to a people who are predominantly good, i.e., Americans.

Otherwise, pacifism facilitates evil.

[RnMomof7]

But I am compelled to point out that there may be a higher purpose in this, IMHO, "wrong" decision of the Vatican.
The terrorists, both Osama, the Iranian clerics, and Iraq's none-too-religious Hussein... all want the arab world to see this as a Holy War
....But how can he spin it to the Muslim world that Christians are waging a Holy War on them instead of the other way around, if the single largest Christian entity they know opposes America's policy? .

This point was made on another thread to me and I believe it is valid. As most know I am no defender of the Pope ..but I agree that in this time the Pope does give "cover" to the war even if he does not mean to

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

[Happy2BMe]

The Pope Kissing The Qu'ran

---

Here is a photo of the Pope at the end of an audience with Patriarch Raphael I of Iraq where "the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book the Qu'ran presented to him by the delegation and kissed it as a sign of respect".

[A. Pole]

The Assyrians still speak the language of Jesus, and follow the way of the cross, despite centuries of persecution. The strength of their faith should be a humbling example to us all in the West.

Come on. Everyone knows that the original Bible was King James. And even ancient Romans said "Ex Occidente Lux" (Light Comes From the West).

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

...So who is the "Colonel House" of the Bush administration?...

You must be the "near occassion of sin" we're always taught to avoid!!!

[Notwithstanding]

Thank you. You have acknowledged my point (that your blanket statement was meaningless)!

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

full text of Bush speech in italics interspersed with commentary from great conservatives here

Or you can find the speech on the American Enterprise Institute web page....

[onedoug]

Fine defense of your principle, whatever it is.

[HighRoadToChina]

What ticks me really off is that the Catholic Church is considering recognizing Communist China in lieu of Free Taiwan.

Now the Pope is going to stop the liberation of Iraq and the freeing of millions of Iraqis from the boot this mass murderer and torturer?

They can't even get their act together on stopping the wolf0s in sheeps clothing rom molesting innocent boys and girls.

It's time for new leadership at the Vatican.

[HighRoadToChina]

My friend, you hit the nail on the provobial head. Pacifism only works in the West where there is some decency and values left, not by much. Ghandhi would have been killed right away if he did what he did in Communist China or the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Pope does give "cover" to the war

Thanks. Interesting angle.

Time will tell how far this Pope takes his appeal for peace.

[Notwithstanding]

Repeat:

Sometimes, pacifism does facilitate evil - as does a bellicose attitude.

Sometimes, pacifism prevents evil - as does a bellicose atitude.

[onedoug]

"Sometimes, pacifism prevents evil..."

Unless one is dealing with decency to begin with, how?

[Byron_the_Aussie]

>...I don't recall the Pope saying word one of prayer for all of the women and children being raped, experimented on with biological and chemcial weapons, having limbs cut off without regard or shot without trial...

Oh.

You're privy to the Pope's prayers, are you?

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...if the Pope is such a warrior against communism, why is he siding with the UN, a blatant attempt at a one world communist government which desires to dictate economic and personal behavior to all member nations?...

I have no idea. But given that he is a towering, almost unique figure, in the history of the war of the citizen vs. the state, he may well have a very good reason. I suggest we explore that likelihood, before going into auto-attack-dog mode.