I must be tired. This sentence made no sense to me at all. Can you be more clear? 
Posted on 03/01/2003 3:14:26 PM PST by exodus
President Bush Sr. proudly spoke of "The New World Order," a term used by those who promote one-world government under the United Nations. In going to war in 1991, he sought and received UN authority to push Iraqi forces out of Kuwait. He forcefully stated that this UN authority was adequate, and that although a congressional resolution was acceptable, it was entirely unnecessary and he would proceed regardless. At that time there was no discussion regarding a congressional declaration of war. The first Persian Gulf War therefore was clearly a UN, political war fought within UN guidelines, not for U.S. security – and it was not fought through to victory. The bombings, sanctions, and harassment of the Iraqi people have never stopped. We are now about to resume the active fighting. Although this is referred to as the second Persian Gulf War, it’s merely a continuation of a war started long ago, and is likely to continue for a long time even after Saddam Hussein is removed from power.
Our attitude toward the United Nations is quite different today compared to 1991. I have argued for years against our membership in the United Nations because it compromises our sovereignty. The U.S. has always been expected to pay an unfair percentage of UN expenses. I contend that membership in the United Nations has led to impractical military conflicts that were highly costly both in lives and dollars, and that were rarely resolved.
Our 58 years in Korea have seen 33,000 lives lost, 100,000 casualties, and over a trillion dollars in today’s dollars spent. Korea is the most outrageous example of our fighting a UN war without a declaration from the U.S. Congress. And where are we today? On the verge of a nuclear confrontation with a North Korean regime nearly out of control. And to compound the irony, the South Koreans are intervening in hopes of diminishing the tensions that exist between the United States and North Korea!
As bad as the Vietnam nightmare was, at least we left and the UN was not involved. We left in defeat and Vietnam remained a unified communist country. The results have been much more salutary. Vietnam is now essentially non-communist, and trade with the West is routine. We didn’t disarm Vietnam, we never counted their weapons, and so far no one cares. Peaceful relations have developed between our two countries, not by force of arms, but through trade and friendship. No United Nations, no war, and no inspections served us well – even after many decades of war and a million deaths inflicted on the Vietnamese in an effort by both the French and the United States to force them into compliance with Western demands.
But in this new battle with Iraq, our relationship with the United Nations and our allies is drawing a lot of attention. The administration now says it would be nice to have UN support, but it’s not necessary. The President argues that a unilateralist approach is permissible with his understanding of national sovereignty. But no mention is made of the fact that the authority to go to war is not a UN prerogative, and that such authority can only come from the U.S. Congress.
Although the argument that the United Nations cannot dictate to us what is in our best interest is correct, and we do have a right to pursue foreign policy unilaterally, it’s ironic that we’re making this declaration in order to pursue an unpopular war that very few people or governments throughout the world support. But the argument for unilateralism and national sovereignty cannot be made for the purpose of enforcing UN Security Council resolutions. That doesn’t make any sense. If one wants to enforce UN Security Council resolutions, that authority can only come from the United Nations itself. We end up with the worst of both worlds: hated for our unilateralism, but still lending credibility to the UN.
The Constitution makes it clear that if we must counter a threat to our security, that authority must come from the U. S. Congress. Those who believe, and many sincerely do, that the United Nations serves a useful function, argue that ignoring the United Nations at this juncture will surely make it irrelevant. Even with my opposition to the United Nations, I can hardly be pleased that its irrelevancy might come about because of our rush to war against a nation that has not aggressed against us nor poses any threat to us. From my viewpoint the worst scenario would be for the United Nations to sanction this war, which may well occur if we offer enough U.S. taxpayer money and Iraqi oil to the reluctant countries. If that happens we could be looking at another 58-year occupation, expanded Middle East chaos, or a dangerous spread of hostilities to all of Asia or even further.
With regard to foreign affairs, the best advice comes from our Founders and the Constitution. It is better to promote peace and commerce with all nations, and exclude ourselves from the entangling, dangerous, complex, and unworkable alliances that come with our membership in the United Nations.
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Um, Vietnam HAS been in the news, ever since they decided to send workers to a sweatshop under the guidance of a South Korean Businessman. BUT NOT BEFORE THEY ALL UNDERWENT PATRIOTIC CLASSES. Except the South Korean Businessman just gots found guilty in a Federal Court in Hawaii for slave trafficking. But I fergot. Vietnam is not commie anymore. HA!
There are quite a number of tryannical nations the world over who are not communist, but are nevertheless tyrannies. There are even very capitalistic tyrannies, and slavery can exist in a free society, too; communism has no monopoly on that, either.
As I said, I know nothing of present-day Vietnam.
I must be tired. This sentence made no sense to me at all. Can you be more clear?
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War was declared on us.
By Iraq? When did that happen?
I don't need to since that is not the case. Congress gave him the authority to decide when hostilities should commence. That is their "declaration of war". The Congress can, if it so chooses withhold funding if they disagree OR they can rescind the Joint Resolution. Now, you may not like that but your entire argument is unsupportable given the lack of a REQUIREMENT for congress to exercise its POWER to declare war or the lack of "proper" language or format such a declaration must use. You don't have a leg to stand on.
That's for Congress to decide, not you, and not the President.
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They are acting in full compliance of the Constitution, and the War Powers Act.
The War Powers Act is illegal.
It gives the President the authorization to have six-month long wars, without a Declaration of War from Congress.
Now you're just arguing in circles.
It's time for me to crash anyway....
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Congress gave him the authority to decide when hostilities should commence. That is their "declaration of war".
Congress delegated the power to decide when or if hostilities would commence.
If the President can decide not to go to war, it isn't a Congressional decision.
By the way, hello, friend.
The War Powers Resolution is still illegal.
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Article 1, Secion 8, Clause 11:
To declare War, grant letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
This one of those "foregoing Powers" mentioned above. And the rest of the legislative branches powers have to do with making laws governing "any Department or Officer thereof", not tranfering legislative powers to them.
Tell me, in your thinking, how is such a transfer of powers not a violation of the separation of powers?
If that is what it was you MAY have a point but it is not the situation. The only thing Bush has discretion on is the timing. Congress has already spoken as to who war will be waged upon. You have no argument to make.
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