Foam supplier says Nightclub owner, Michael Derderian, bought non-fire retardant soundproofing

The Providence journal ^ | 02/28/2003 | By TOM MOONEY

[TaxRelief]

By TOM MOONEY Journal staff writer

Updated 1:36 p.m. / The owner of American Foam Corp. in Johnston says The Station nightclub in June 2000 purchased $575 worth of common egg-crate packing foam for soundproofing, but it was not fire retardant.

The fire retardant foam would have cost twice as much, according to Aram DerManouelian, who said the club wanted "the lowest grade, the cheapest stuff."

"They had a choice, and they bought general purpose egg-crate foam," said DerManouelian. "It kept the noise down, but whoever figured they'd put flame on it? Jesus. For a $575 invoice, here we are."

Whether the soundproofing was safe and fire retardant, as required by law, is now at the center of the investigation into the blaze at West Warwick club last week, which has killed 97 and injured another 186 people. It was the fourth deadliest nightclub fire in the nation's history and the worst fire ever in Rhode Island.

Pyrotechnics set off by the band Great White apparently ignited the foam, then quickly spread to paneling and a suspended ceiling, filling the club with thick black smoke and flames. The building was engulfed within three minutes, West Warwick Fire Chief Charles Hall has said.

DerManouelian said Michael Derderian, co-owner of the club, wrote out a check for a delivery of 25 sheets of the charcoal foam on June 27, 2000. The foam was 2 1/2 inches thick. Each sheet was 37 by 84 inches in diameter. It was made of polyurethane and is generally used for packing.

"It's unfortunate," DerManouelian said. "They did not buy fire retardant foam. Yeah, they could have. We sell fire-retardant foam. They bought the wrong kind. In hindsight, they probably didn't think they were going to have a fire."

Kathleen M. Hagerty, a lawyer for Michael Derderian, confirmed that the club had purchased the foam. She said a neighbor who worked as a salesman for American Foam Corp. suggested they use it as a solution to complaints neighbors had about noise from the club.

Hagerty refused to identify the neighbor.

"We have someone looking for him, and the AG has someone looking for him, too," Hagerty said. "I don't know where the man is. He may be out of town for all I know."

Investigators hunting for the source of the stage insulation used at The Station nightclub searched American Foam Monday night and took samples of products.

The foam was installed to appease neighbors upset by the club's noise. Michael Derderian and his brother, Jeffrey, bought the club in March 2000.

The club's former manager, Tim Arnold, of Johnston, would not confirm or deny yesterday that he had installed the foam soundproofing. A woman who answered the door at his house said Arnold no longer worked at a foam company.

Meanwhile, the grand jury is apparently back in action at Rhode Island National Guard's Camp Fogarty in East Greenwich.

Jack Russell, lead singer for Great White, entered the complex shortly after noon. Several prosecutors from the state attorney general's office were also seen driving into the camp this morning.

Russell is seeking immunity from prosecution or a letter of non-prosecution from the attorney general's office for any possible testimony before the grand jury.

The attorney general's office asked for permission to use classrooms at the camp earlier this week. The grand jury started investigating Wednesday, but did not meet yesterday.

-- With reports from The Associated Press and Journal staff photographer Mary Murphy.

[Dane]

In short, he failed his legal and moral duty. Slap him as well as the band and the club

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Not one sane person could ponder that pyrotechnics without a permit as used by Great White on that fateful night would be used in a room like that.

Forgive me in believing that the fire inspector could think that people couldn't be that stupid. Fire departments across the country learned that lesson on February 20th, IMHO.

BTW, would you light those pyrotechnics inside your house?

[Nita Nuprez]

That's right. Where SamAdams76 lives, they have cranberry trucks.

Ah...  Thanks for reminding us to add the trucking company who delivered all that beer.

So now we have the poultry industry; the timber industry; the trucking industry; and the adult beverage industry.  Yep, that pretty much covers it. Give me more time and I'll figure out how the cranberry industry factors in.

I wonder who has the deepest pockets...

[Atlas Sneezed]

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[Howlin]

I was discussing your previous post about the timber industry with my husband. He thinks you may have a future in the law.

But if we're going to blame, let's not stop there: how about the "stupid" people who went into the club. I mean, couldn't they see what it looked like on the outside?

But my husband said if you want the timber industry because they grew the trees, you're going to have to "Shoot the moon" and just name God as a unindicted co-conspirator.

[Poohbah]

The use or nonuse of pyrotechnics is irrelevant.

Legally, that foam was supposed to be fire-retardant, whether or not pyros were allowed to be used.

Yes, perhaps The Station wouldn't have burned downb that night if they didn't use the pyro.

And some other night, someone scuffs the insulation on a power cord, jams it next to the wall, and the cord then arcs.

Flames shoot up the foam, and the club burns to the ground.

The fire inspector did NOT do his job. That club should not have been open at all.

[Japedo]

A lot of information floating around out there, but I believe I read that in that state, it is the club that is supposed to get the permit

I remember reading that as well some place on FR. I can not remember the source of it.

However I stress if the band was also suppose to Get some sort of permit too, As I asked earlier I'm not sure if that would lay with the band it's self or management? Any Ideas on that aspect of it?

[Nita Nuprez]

You haven't heard about the vacuum cleaner company that lost a suit because little Johnny (pun intended) whacked his wee-wee off by inserting it into the sucking hole on said company's product. Mangled wee-wee, company loses.

Reason? Fan that caused suction was able to be reached by fingers (as well as boys' wee-wees).

This was a liability issue that the company should have looked in to and therefore little mangled wee-wee boy's family wins big. Vacuum was not used for its intended purpose, company still lost because they "should have known" someone could lose a finger (or a wee-wee).

 

I checked with my attorney and the statute of limitations has expired.  I just wanted to remind you of that.

(A really bad thread to dump humor.  Where's the Friday night thread?)

[Nita Nuprez]

I agree with you. They all share some responsibility.

[Howlin]

How about this: somebody throws a cigarette. Same results, IMO.

[Jim Noble]

>>the city of Warwick for signing off on the fire inspection<<

I bet they're exempt from suit.

[Poohbah]

From "The Laws of the Navy:"

On the strength of one link in the cable,
Dependeth the might of the chain,
Who knows when thou mayest be tested?
So live that thou bearest the strain!

[supercat]

One point nobody has mentioned on this thread is that, per another thread, the club had glued glitter to the foam. Many spray adhesives are extremely flammable and remain so after application. While I wouldn't expect polyurethane foam to ignite readily from sparks (it does burn well once ignited), if there was any exposed glue residue that could have been ignited exceptionally readily and in turn ignited the foam underneath.

[Poohbah]

Well, the nicotine Nazis won't let people light up indoors now...

[Atlas Sneezed]

willtec® light-weight, open-cell acoustic melamine material meets the following regulations.  (Where not indicated, the following testes were performed on 1" thick material):

FM VSS 302	Pass (automotive)
UTAC (Union Technique de l'Automobile du Motorcycle et du Cycle)	Pass (Category 1, buses)
UL code 94, electronics	HBF: Pass HF1: Pass VO: Pass
ASTM E 84 Class 1	Flame spread:  Natural - 5;   Painted - 10;  Hypalon - 20 Smoke Density:  Natural - 45;  Painted - 10;  Hypalon 30 the ASTM E 84 test procedure is comparable to:  UL723, ANSI/NFPA No. 255, and UBC No. 801.
FAR 25.853, aviation	Passes
ASTM C 518 Thermal Conductivity	0.25 Btu in/h ft2 °F at 68 °F
ASTM C 177 Thermal Conductivity	0.25 Btu in/h ft2 °F at 68 °F
ASTM E 162-83 Surface Flammability of Materials Using a Radiant Heat Energy Source	Flame spread factor: 6.7 Heat evolution factor: 3.5 Flame spread index: 22.9
ASTM D 3574-86
Density Test	0.7 lb/ft3
Indentation Force	at 25% - 82 ldf
Deflection Test	at 75% - 356 lbf
Compression Set Test   (73 F/50% r.H.)	at 50% = 6.2%;   at 75% = 8.5%;  at 90% = 14.4%
Tension Test, storage at 73°	@B = 21.8 lbf/in2, eR = 19.5%
22 hrs at 284° prior testing	@B = 20.3 lbf/in2, eR = 18.5%
Tear Resistance Test:	Ts = 3.83 ldf/ft
ASTM C 384-85 Sound-Absorption, thickness 2" Frequency 2000 Hz	>90%
ASTM 662-83 Specific Optical Density of Smoke Generated by Solid Material	Pass, ATS 1000.001
ASTM 1000.001 Toxicity Requirements for Smoke Gases	Pass
The data and information shown are average values in test environments which may vary and do not constitute a guarantee of performance.  Testing is recommended before actual use.

[Poohbah]

Holy s**t.

You're right on about the glue--and about how readily it would ignite the foam.

[Jim Noble]

>>I can't believe how many people are still blaming the band for this<<

I think the owners should, and will, go to jail for this.

But the band went into the place and set it on fire.

And they did so despite the fact that a hazardous condition was apparant to any reasonable person. They are going to be assigned part of the blame, justly, IMO.

[mommadooo3]

DerManouelian said Michael Derderian, co-owner of the club, wrote out a check for a delivery of 25 sheets of the charcoal foam on June 27, 2000. The foam was 2 1/2 inches thick. Each sheet was 37 by 84 inches in diameter. It was made of polyurethane and is generally used for packing.

This killer foam has been there since 2000.

The Fire Inspector has inspected/passed/declared the bar safe, a number of times since 2000. HOW could he pass the place off as 'safe'? AND HOW could OTHER bands have 'pyro permits' for that bar since 2000? And WHY didn't the OTHER bands' pyro's set the place aflame? Maybe it was the heat of the video camera that set the place off.

Bar owners bought foam for soundproofing. Bar owners are 'on record' as wanting/buying the 'lowest grade/cheapest stuff'...and NOT wanting to pay the extra $$$ for the safer, flame retardent kind. Bar owners are also shown to have allowed other bands to use pyro. KNOWING that their cheap sh&t foam was NOT flame retardent.

One other thing that 'sticks' in my mind...is that the lights went out within moments of the fire starting. Doesn't that mean the circuit box had to be NEAR the fire's origin? It does take a while for a fire to burn through enough walls to burn up wiring to put lighting out. If the circuit box was so close to the stage area, WHY would killer foam be used there, and be able to pass a safety inspection?

[Nita Nuprez]

But my husband said if you want the timber industry because they grew the trees, you're going to have to "Shoot the moon" and just name God as a unindicted co-conspirator.

I thought about that (God grows cranberries, too) but thought better of it lest I be struck down by a stray bolt of lightning.  Tell your husband he's much braver than I.

[Dane]

Flames shoot up the foam, and the club burns to the ground.

The fire inspector did NOT do his job. That club should not have been open at all.

Name me a catostrophic fire where this specific foam is blamed.

The fire inspector only has history to go by and history was set on Feb. 20, 2003 and if another catostrophic fire happens from the same foam in the future then the fire inspector of that municipality can be blamed, IMO.

This whole tragedy was a trainwreck waiting to happen, with the club and the band heading toward each other on the same track, IMO.

[Nita Nuprez]

Add the glitter industry.