Foam supplier says Nightclub owner, Michael Derderian, bought non-fire retardant soundproofing

The Providence journal ^ | 02/28/2003 | By TOM MOONEY

[Mr. Bird]

The lack of any mention of pyro in the contract does not automatically render them at fault. Important question: did they include pyro language in previous contracts?

I still think the liability is at LEAST 50% on the owner, maybe more. The band has to shoulder some of the blame, if only for introducing the flames to the environmnent regardless of their contractual or verbal agreements with the owner. And I think that a building that goes up like a tinder box raises questions of the inspector's office.

[gatex]

"...skin exposure to liquids at certain temperatures..."

It's on a decal on my A.O. Smith hot water heater and in the owner's manual --- guess they learned from McDonalds.

Temp, deg F -------time to produce 2nd & 3rd degree burns

170 -------nearly instaneously
160 ------ about 1/2 second
150 -------about 1-1/2 sec
140 -------less than 5 sec
130 -------about 30 sec
125 -------about 2 minutes
120 -------more than 5 minutes

The heater was set on 120 F, so I increased it a few degrees.

[Conservative4Ever]

Oh I agree with you...the club owners have to be held accountable too. But, club owners and promoters tend to be a questionable lot anyway. IMHO. I am assuming that fire regulations vary from state to state, region to region, county to county. The club just had had a recent fire inspection in Dec. 2002 if I recall correctly. Barring the use of pyrotechnics, the club could have very well been in compliance with the regulations, however crude and unrefined the club appeared.

Red

[IYAS9YAS]

Think it was a canister...either way, it sucked...

Ba dump bump.

[-YYZ-]

Couldn't go a whole thread without getting a dig in at the libertarians, could you?

[Freedom4US]

The deepest pockets will belong to the manufacturer of the eggcrate foam, therefore they are the ones at fault. It's the Law".

Yep - you nailed it. The manufacturer, and the city of Warwick for signing off on the fire inspection. Bet on it.

[Hillary's Lovely Legs]

But a canister has a long hose unless the hose is taken off and you hold on to the vacuum itself.

It's a foolish endeavor.

[IYAS9YAS]

I agree about the exposure issue. My water heater has the rates right on the side. So many seconds at 120 so many at 130 and 140. It's amazing how much a degree in temp shortens the time.

The coffee was hot, but the lawsuit was a farce. Millions drank it at that temp every day without a problem.

We had a maroon in our unit do the exact same thing (except, the lid was on, he squeezed his legs together too tight an popped the styrofoam cup apart).

All he was awarded was the nickname "Crotch". I think we took up a donation for a new cup of coffee and a plastic cup holder for his Jeepster.

[Freedom4US]

That's crazy. The manufacturer of the eggcrate foam bears no responsibility at all. They just sell the product. What the purchaser does with it has nothing to do with them.

Yes, it is crazy. And the inmates are running the asylum in the U.S., there are many, many successful lawsuits against folks who "just sell the product"; it illustrates just how atrociously evil lawyers can be.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

(Dunno if that would be the band itself or the Management of the band, I will have to keep looking for answers on that.)

A lot of information floating around out there, but I believe I read that in that state, it is the club that is supposed to get the permit. That could have been in a post and not an article though, so consider the source.

I can't believe how many people are still blaming the band for this, with all we've learned.

[IYAS9YAS]

Yes, the hose was removed...

I have a Rainbow Vacuum. No way to get anything shorter than 10 inches close to any moving parts. Then, even if it hit anything, the moving part would probably do little to no damage.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Someone I know sued an appliance company when nearly her whole family died in a house explosion from a gas leak, ADMITTEDLY cause by the negligence of the homeowner.

The appliance company settled, as did four other companies, IIRC. A small number of survivors divided up a multi-million-dollar settlement.

It's sick.

[BJungNan]

How much extra would the foam have cost for fire-retardant?

[Freedom4US]

The sad fact is, manufacturers are constantly sued even when their products are used in ways other than intended. Reason being, they have all the money, relatively. Generally, it's cheaper to settle out of court. Welfare for lawyers.

WARNING! CAPE DOES NOT ENABLE USER TO FLY DO NOT EAT FROZEN PIZZA

[demsux]

Who is the moron that placed the pyro's in proximity of ANYTHING THAT MIGHT CATCH ON FIRE.

THAT is the person that should be held responsible.

[Dane]

I can't believe how many people are still blaming the band for this, with all we've learned.

I respect and applaud your opinons the great majortiy of the time, but here we disagree. The band was reckless, IMHO.

The pyrotechnic device that ignited the deadly blaze at The Station nightclub was placed on the stage just minutes before the headline band, Great White, made its entrance, according to a member of one of the warm-up acts last Thursday night.

"I saw him jump down on his knees and hurry and get this stuff ready," Al Prudhomme, drummer for the local hard-rock band Fathead, said yesterday, adding that he did not recognize the man doing the work.

Great White's lead singer, Jack Russell, acknowledged on the night of the fire that the band had used the pyrotechnics. But, until Prudhomme spoke up, no one had said publicly when the device was placed on the stage.

Mario Giamei Jr., a Sutton, Mass., mortgage broker who worked occasionally at The Station as a bouncer, said yesterday that he did not see who set up the fireworks, but that he heard Great White's tour manager, Dan Biechele, express concern moments after the walls of the club burst into flames.

"Their guy, Dan, looked at me and said, 'I think I'm in big trouble. I [expletive] this one up,' " said Giamei.

Giamei was not working for the club Thursday night -- he was there as a fan.

Thomas G. Briody, a lawyer for Biechele, said, "I would urge the public to examine with great care the accuracy of any statement attributed to people in the frenzied moments after the fire started."

LINK

[Poohbah]

Dane, the standard is that you use fire-retardant materials in high-occupancy buildings such as The Station, whether or not pyros get used.

And the fire inspector is supposed to physically TEST the materials by applying a match for 12 seconds.

So, yes, I'd slap the inspector as well; he didn't do his job.

[Poohbah]

I can't believe how many people are still blaming the band for this, with all we've learned.

They own a piece of the responsibility.

[Dane]

Dane, the standard is that you use fire-retardant materials in high-occupancy buildings such as The Station, whether or not pyros get used.

And the fire inspector is supposed to physically TEST the materials by applying a match for 12 seconds.

So, yes, I'd slap the inspector as well; he didn't do his job.

I unserstand your point, but since the club owners and the band never filed a permit, it makes the point moot legally, IMHO.

All the fire inspector has to say on the stand is that a permit has not been filed and the law was broken with the club's and band's use of pyrotechnics without a permit.

"If the a permit had been requested, I(the fire marshall) would have gone through the proper procedures as accorded by law. And although it is not known what would or could have happened, if what happened on the night of Feb. 20th at The Station at the test of pyro's about 10 people would have to escape the inferno.

"About 340 people less than those who would have tried to escape that tragic night."

A legal arguement all rolled up in one. The negligence of the club and band not applying for a permit and a case against the club and band for overcrowding the club.

[Poohbah]

All the fire inspector has to say on the stand is that a permit has not been filed and the law was broken with the club's and band's use of pyrotechnics without a permit.

Quite correct.

But the physical evidence at hand--namely, one burned-to-the-ground nightclub--indicates that the inspector DID NOT INSPECT.

In short, he failed his legal and moral duty. Slap him as well as the band and the club.