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To: TPartyType; OrthodoxPresbyterian
...men who presume they can read the Bible for itself....

Ah, yes. We Christians call these sorts "believers." Why? They believe God when He says that His word is for them, and not for some specialized class (cf. Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 2 Corinthians 1:1; Ephesians 1:1; etc. ad inf.). They can't be classed with those so "wise" that they know better than God, and take it out of the hands of His intended recipients, reserving it to their selected shapers and molders.

... without the "shackles" of the work of past biblical scholars, theologians and established practice.

This is so hard for a slave to understand.

I am free to consider seriously all who have labored over the Word, and to benefit from their wisdom. I am simply not shackled by their mistakes! God, speaking to His people through His word (see above), remains the judge.

So when an august individual like Chrysostom or Calvin illuminates a passage, I benefit from the light. But when they stray (as both do), and am not shackled to repeat their mistakes.

If I did, I might end up being chained to silly and anti-God practices like chasing after dead people; or to heresies, like adding my works to Christ's blood to win salvation.

You and your ilk are bound to accumulate centuries of your own errors, and worse ones, I suspect, because you have the hubris to reject the wisdom of past ages.

Yes I will, but that won't be the cause. The cause will be my own fallibility. That is why it is so wonderful that God never chained anyone to my interpretations, any more than He did to Justin Martyr's nor Papias'.

I should think a conservtive would know better

Maybe, maybe not. But a Christian knows to believe God. Slaves of Greece or Rome may do a 2 Timothy 3:5/Titus 1:16 on such passages as 2 Timothy 3:15-17, but a Christian reads it, studies it, understands it, praises God for it, and lives it.

You know, nothing external to you keeps you from knowing the freedom of life in Christ, as a child of God rather than the slave of a sect (Galatians 3:23-29). What Christ says to all, He says to you as well:

"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light"
Matthew 11:28-30 (ESV)
Nothing compares with the excellency of knowing the Lord Jesus Christ. Pride, stubbornness, tradition -- all rubble, compared to that knowledge (Philippians 3:7-11).

Dan
How Can I Know God?

75 posted on 02/25/2003 6:18:05 PM PST by BibChr ("If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples" [John 8:31])
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To: BibChr; TPartyType; OrthodoxPresbyterian
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11583b.htm

Paulicians

Excerpts: Jesus' work consisted only in his teaching; to believe in him saves men from judgment. The true baptism and Eucharist consist in hearing his word, as in John, iv, 10. But many Paulicians, nevertheless, let their children be baptized by the Catholic clergy. They honoured not the Cross, but only the book of the Gospel. They were Iconoclasts, rejecting all pictures. Their Bible was a fragmentary New Testament. They rejected St. Peter's epistles because he had denied Christ. They referred always to the "Gospel and Apostle", apparently only St Luke and St. Paul; though they quoted other Gospels in controversy.

The whole ecclesiastical hierarchy is bad, as also all Sacraments and ritual. They had a special aversion to monks. Under the apostles and prophets were "fellow-workers" (synechdemoi) who formed a council, and "notaries" (notarioi), who looked after the holy books and kept order at meetings. Their conventicles were called, not churches, but "prayer-houses" (proseuchai). Harnack sums them up as "dualistic Puritans and Individualists and as "an anti-hierarchic Christianity built up on the Gospel, and Apostle, with emphatic rejection of Catholic Christianity" (Dogmengeschichte, II 528).

Since Gibbon the Paulicians have often been described as a survival of early and pure Christianity, godly folk who clung to the Gospel, rejecting later superstitions, who were grossly calumniated by their opponents. Conybeare (op. cit. ) thinks they were a continuation of the Adoptionists. Dr. Adeney calls them "in many respects Protestants before Protestantism" (The Greek and Eastern Churches, 219). This idea accounts for the fact that the sect has met among modern writers with more interest and certainly more sympathy than it deserves.

78 posted on 02/25/2003 6:39:14 PM PST by Destro (Fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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