F-102 Information

022203 | Vanity

[Archangelsk]

Are there any AEs or pilots who could tell me - conjecture is fine - why we developed the F-102? It seems like this low thrust jet was probably one of the worst designed fighters I've ever seen or read about (the thrust to weight ratio is absurd). I would have thought that with the F-4 - proof that a Coke machine could fly if you put a big enough engine on it - coming up to speed around the same period that the 100 series would be a non-starter. I singled out the 102 because of the specs I just read.

To preempt the sensitive among you, I know the President flew the 102 and this is not speculation on his time as an AF pilot.

[BenLurkin]

Don't know anything about it but here's a picture of one:

[LibKill]

Eh, DOD has bought some real dogs over the years. The stuff our guys have now is pretty good by any standard.

[BenLurkin]

They were "interceptors" apparently. Here are four in formation:

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

It's fire control system was based on the f-86d
It was designed to fire long range radar
controlled missiles.
If attacked it only had rockets to defend itself.
it was replaced by the f 106
another delta wing.
The hottest AF jet was the f 104 at this time.

[Archangelsk]

Yeah, I read the weapons specs too and found them, lacking.

[Poohbah]

Short answer: it was the best they could do at the time.

[stuartcr]

Because someone at Convair new someone on the appropriations committee.

[Ford Fairlane]

I understand the President also flew the F 86 and F 104

[Old Professer]

F-104; watched a bunch of them from the weather tower - full afterburner takeoff roll just over 1,000 feet - then one day a Navy F-4 landed and took off straight up wiggling its wings as it disappeared into the bright blue Florida sky.

[Kevin Curry]

Steve Canyon flew one. I especially remember the story where one F-102 had total engine failure and Steve Canyon and another pilot pulled their F-102s alongside and slipped their wingtips under its wingtips to support it and bring it safely back to base. ;-)

The F-106 offered a much-improved design over the F-102. Its punched fuselage at the widest point of the wings enabled it to exceed the speed of sound in level flight--something the F-102 could not do. But who really cares? The F-102 has been consigned to the boneyard for several decades. Some were probably used as target drones and the rest have likely been turned into scrap metal.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

It was designed with vacuum tube elrctronics.
Its computers were analog.
To a person used to ics and digital computers
its specs seem lousy but it was designed 50
years ago

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

electronics (sic)

[Long Cut]

Actually, the President's ride was the F-106 DELTA DART:

The F-102, known as the "DELTA DAGGER", was sort of a "stopgap" interceptor, which incidentally proved the usefulness of the delta wing concept. As you state, it proved less-than-desirable.

It basically just took up the slack until the 106 came online. BTW, the 106 served in the Continental Air Defense role until the late '80s.

Hope this answers a few questions.

[SirChas]

In the early 1950's I think the aircraft were built according to certain mission types. The 102 (and later replaced by the 106) were interceptors.

I have been mach 1 in a 106 and it is considered by many pilots as the "caddy" of the older fighters. It was also mach 2+ and could out perform most aircraft until the f-15 came about.

The 106 still holds the single engine climb to altitude record, and it was built from 1956 to 1959 or so!

Another source that may answer your question woul be a 106 site:

http://www.f-106deltadart.com/

SirChas

[Kevin Curry]

But to answer your question:

"Faced with the new threat of a Soviet long range bomber attack aimed at American soil, the USAF requested design proposals from US Airplane Companies for an supersonic interceptor able to reach an altitude of 50,000 ft in four minutes, that could be in service by 1954. On September 11, 1951 Convair's proposal, the YF-102A was chosen for the program named the “1954 Interceptor”. Based on the first powered delta winged aircraft, the XF-92A, the Delta Dagger became the Worlds first delta winged combat aircraft, the first all weather Interceptor capable of supersonic speeds in level flight, and the first aircraft designed with an all missile armament."

From this link.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

The F-4 first flew in '58, two years after the F-102 became operational, and was designed for the Navy and Marine Corps, not the Air Force. The Air Force didn't get any Phantoms until November of '63.

[Archangelsk]

Yeah, I agree, but even the aerodynamics of the delta wing seemed funky. The leading edge looked, I'm basing this on a photograph, like it couldn't handle anything in the way of shock wave formation. I don't know what M_crit on it was, but the fact that it couldn't sustain M 1.0 says a lot.

[Poohbah]

Actually, Dubya flew the 102. His unit got decomm'd when they phased out the 102, he didn't transition to the 106.

[MediaMole]

It was a 1953 design and like many of the fighters of the period its performance was lackluster due to the poor engines available. Even then, the F-102 was looked upon as an interim type. The Air Force wanted the F-106, but they needed anything they could get.

The F-4 didn't enter Navy service until 1961. F-102 entered service in 1956 and F-106 in 1959.