Posted on 02/21/2003 7:15:36 PM PST by SeenTheLight
Your rights get cut back when you wage war and terror. Why should Israelis suffer from Palestinian butchery without fighting back? This is sheer anti-Semitism on your part. You prefer the Jews who had no guns and were forced to the gas chambers and concentration camps. You prefer Jew as victim same way the Muslims do.
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In 1945 there were nearly 900,000 Jews living in communities throughout the Arab world. Today, there are fewer than 8,000. In some Arab states, such as Libya, the Jewish community no longer exists; in others, only a few hundred Jews remain. Of the 900,000 Jewish refugees, approximately 600,000 were absorbed by Israel, where today almost half of Israel's Jewish citizens are the original refugees and their descendants. The remainder went to Europe and the Americas.
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So then you must think that murdering Jews is a "fundamental human right."
Again, I suspect your recollection is wrong. I wish you could overcome your sensitive feelings and respond to Heidi Doodys factual post, or to my request for documentation of Israeli agreements. Your accusations of an apartheid state, Israeli genocide, and a Palestinian desire for peace are bogus, proved by your refusal to defend them. Glad you understand the cartoons now though!
Ive not seen the Helsinki accords referred to much in reference to the Oslo War, they primarily were directed toward Eastern Europe, though theyre often referred to with respect to other causes, the mistreatment of Muslims in the US for example. If you meant Helsinki, I look forward to your analysis.
I suspect you were thinking of Oslo (those Scandinavians all look alike). If so, your contention that Israel agreed to either abandon settlements or cease construction is patently false (maybe you're thinking of the peace treaty with Egypt?). The settlements were a subject to be dealt with in the final negotiations, nothing more.
Other than security, of course. In the wake of Israels withdrawal, the PA was obligated to protect the settlers, an obligation they failed to even attempt to achieve. Perhaps you'd like to check out how the PA defends Joseph's Tomb
There have, of course, been a multitude of violations of Oslo, not by Israel, all by the Palestinians, starting with their basic refusal to recognize Israels right to exist, as even our State Department has recognized.
Youre either poorly informed on the topic, or a spewer of propaganda.
Your heroic 3rd world barbarians using children in their attacks on Jews
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Several homes which Israel claims belonged to militants were destroyed. Excellent!!!
You're attempt to emotionally hijack a past travesty and argue for some type of moral equilevence is absurd. The Israelis have gone out of their way to attempt to live with the Palistinians. If they really wanted to deny "fundamental human rights" to the Palestinians they could obliterate them within a week.
I am part Native American.
But of course! LOL!
Three cheers for the JPFO!
but Im not aware of any treaty Israel has signed obligating her unilaterally to either abandon or cease construction of settlements
I am not an expert at all the negotiations that had taken place (who is?) but it was at least my impression from news reports that there was a treaty signed which had a widespread expectation that Israel was at a minimum to stop the settlements, which were a major if not the primary sticking point at a point in time (before the assassination of one of the Israeli leaders). Things seemed to go downhill once the settlement-making resumed. One can say that the treaty was broken by terrorism but at least it was my impression that the particular terrorism at the time was not state-sponsored (or Arafat-sponsored, or whatever). Since then, it seems as if the question of sponsorship has been muddied somewhat, but that was well after the settlements resumed, if I recall correctly. And in any case it does address the issue of holding innocent Palestinians responsible for the acts of Palestinian terrorists. You convert them to enemies all if you do that, it seems to me. That seems in the wrong direction.
Ignoring your insulting way of addressing people (with effort)...
If the Pallies get the West Bank and Gaza they will make them into terrorist bases. Israel will not get peace. As it is, Palestinians have plenty of rights to land within Israel. There are 1.1 million Palestinians in Israel and zero Jews in Arab nations. Outside of Israel Palestinians build plenty of new housing all the time in Gaza and the West Bank. They have plenty of rights.
I do not perceive that. I think there have been families waiting since 1947 for compensation for their homes taken at that time by the Israelis. And full property rights means to be safe and secure in one's home. It does not seem that the Palestinians have that either. So they are put on a collision course with the Israeli state by Israeli state policy.
If they want more they should sign a peace treaty. But Pallies walked out of Oslo talks to make war on Israel. Their war failed and the present mess is the result. Israel is succeeding since the number of suicide bombings and terror attacks have dropped precipitously.
I am referring to the accords in which the Palestinians were granted their own police (whatever it was named; sorry). My hope was that that could have continued. It seems as if it was undermined by belligerents within both camps. If the Israeli government has the upper hand in terms of power, it is their move to make to achieve peace. Curfews and so on might be OK for very brief periods but if they interfere with people's liberties, then they become counterproductive. Ditto for more settlements.
What Palestinians don't have is the right to build illegally. Although Israel lets this monkey business slide most of the time
"Illegally" implies common trust in the Israeli state and the disposition of blind justice by that state. Whether or not you agree, the Palestinians do not perceive that as being the case right now. That's the problem. Restore rights is the first step. Otherwise the bloodletting will continue because people literally have nothing to lose.
And resumption of the settlements was viewed as in violation of treaties signed by the Palestinians who remained loyal to the cause of peace.
As well as many Israeli Jews as I distinctly recall (so why continue to bash only me as racist, pro-terrorist, and anti-Israeli? You'll have to bash those anti-Israeli pro-peace Jews with the same brush as well if you want to be consistent. Sheesh.)
As I have said before, Semites include Arabs and Jews. In any case I am not racist, since I have only criticized Israeli state policy. I have said this many times and you have been asleep at the keyboard. Two dollars and seventy five cents and your IQ will buy a Grande Latte at Starbucks. I AM CRITICIZING GOVERNMENT POLICY, NOT A RACE OF PEOPLE. GET IT??? SHEESH.
In 1945 there were nearly 900,000 Jews living in communities throughout the Arab world. Today, there are fewer than 8,000.
Which means something happened after 1945. For 5 points, what could be the something that happened? If anything this proves that Arabs have the capability not to be inherently anti-Jew, as many have asserted.
Repeat after me, folks.
ISRAEL--- COUNTRY
JEWS-- PEOPLE
Criticizing Israel is legitimate as criticizing the Clinton or Bush administration policies.
Got it?
Are you an idiot or a 6 year old? Did you even read my posts about the 800,000 Jews driven from Arab nations? The score is even as far as refugees. One day your stupid Arabs will push it too far, then Mecca will get nuked. That's the endgame. The graveyard of the Jihad will be the molten glass of Mecca and Medina.
I think you caught me there...
I thought there was a general concensus on halting further settlements. At some point the progress ceased, leading to (ok--- my impression) more settlements, and then cascading, anarchy within the ranks of the Palestinian police.
The common expectation as I recall was the ceasing of new settlements. But the more general principle was a common expectation as I recall of the restoration of rights for all citizens. Don't have that? Forget peace. Don't care where it is or who's involved. Could be Hatfields and McCoys. Need restoration of rights as a prelude, or else you don't have squat. If the Israeli government is in power, only the Israeli government is in place to provide that. If they don't want to, then fine-- CUT OFF FUNDING. Why are we funding them anyway? What is this, indefinite welfare for selected foreign apartheid governments or something? Let them pay their own freight.
So much for trial by jury, just compensation, and the rest of the common human rights. Why are we subsidizing a police state?
You most certainly are not. You are spewing slogans and propaganda from the Hamas machine, and you insult everyone who points out your errors while arrogantly demanding that your evil nonsense be given the utmost respect.
You have not given a rational answer to even one point that I brought up, except by name-calling, insults, slogans and changing the subject.
Israel is a democracy you craven liar. You want a police state you have Iraq, Syria and others. You are a liar! Israel has a free press. Israel has Arabs in it's parliament and Arabs vote.
There is the slight matter of curfews, lack of trials, checkpoints, property confiscation without compensation, and so on. Yes, the Palestinians are alive. No, the Israeli government has not guaranteed common human rights. Defund them.
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