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Shuttle Lost Parts Over Calif. (finally confirming what amateur skywatchers from Day One said)
ap ^ | 2/18/2002 | MARCIA DUNN

Posted on 02/18/2003 7:23:50 PM PST by TLBSHOW

Board: Shuttle Lost Parts Over Calif.

SPACE CENTER, Houston - Space shuttle Columbia began losing pieces over the California coast well before it disintegrated over Texas, the accident investigation board reported Tuesday, finally confirming what astronomers and amateur skywatchers have been saying from Day One.

But board member James Hallock, a physicist and chief of the Transportation Department's aviation safety division, said the fragments were probably so small they burned up before reaching the ground.

He said the conclusion that the space shuttle was shedding pieces a full six minutes before it came apart over Texas was based on images of the doomed flight. Astronomers and amateurs on the West Coast photographed and videotaped the shuttle's final minutes.

"Obviously, it would be very important to understand what those pieces are, particularly the ones that started falling off at the very beginning," because they would shed light on the earliest stages of the breakup, he said.

However, Hallock said the pieces that came off early did not seem to be very big, judging from the light reflected off them.

"For us to find something that far back along the path, I think it's going to have to be a pretty substantial piece of the shuttle itself," he said.

Moreover, he added: "That's a lot of area to be looking. ... We have the Grand Canyon area and all of the areas of Southern California, the mountainous area and stuff like this, that even if we could home in on some of these things, it's going to be very difficult to find it. But we sure would like to see it."

In their second news conference in as many weeks, the board members also said they are not convinced the debris that hit the left wing shortly after liftoff on Jan. 16 was insulating foam from the external fuel tank. It is possible the debris was actually ice or much heavier insulating material behind the foam, they said.

Hallock said the suspected breach in Columbia's left wing had to have been bigger than a pinhole, in order to allow the superheated gases surrounding the ship to penetrate the hull.

In other news:

_ The board said it hopes to hold its first public hearing next week, possibly on Feb. 27, to listen to non-NASA (news - web sites) experts who have theories about what destroyed the shuttle. The hearing will be held somewhere in the Houston area. The board has been criticized by some U.S. lawmakers as being too closely tied to NASA.

"We will invite experts who are not associated with any U.S. government program who have theories or hypothesis, who have written to us or provided research documents, to express to us their opinions," said board chairman Harold Gehman Jr., a retired Navy admiral. "That way we get input ... not by any government agency."

_ The board split into three teams Tuesday — materials, operations and technology — and began delving into what may have caused a breach in the shuttle's left wing.

_ An Air Force telescope in Maui took pictures of Columbia as the shuttle orbited overhead during its mission. Gehman said the images were being analyzed and it was too soon to know whether they may hold clues to the shuttle's demise.

_ An external fuel tank identical to the one used by Columbia has been impounded at the Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans and will be tested. If any destructive testing is performed, engineers need to be careful because "we only get one shot at it," Gehman said.

_ Nearly 4,000 pieces of debris have been shipped to Florida's Kennedy Space Center (news - web sites), of which 2,600 have been identified and cataloged, Gehman said. Investigators hope to partially assemble the pieces to help them figure out what happened to the space shuttle. An additional 10,000 pieces are headed to Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana and Kennedy.

It is impossible to calculate how much of Columbia the recovered pieces represent, the board said. In terms of weight, it represents only a tiny portion because so much of the wreckage is small, like fragments of insulation.

In the more than two weeks since the tragedy, the NASA-appointed board has publicly put forth just one hypothesis: that the superheated gases surrounding the spaceship during its descent through the atmosphere penetrated the left wing.

Still a major focus of the investigation is the supposed 2 1/2-pound chunk of rigid insulating foam that broke off Columbia's external fuel tank shortly after liftoff and slammed into the left wing at more than 500 mph.

NASA concluded while Columbia was still in orbit that any damage caused by the foam was slight and posed no safety threat. But engineers are now redoing their analysis to see if they made a mistake or missed something.

Air Force Maj. Gen. John Barry, a member of the investigating board, identified four previous launches, as far back as 1983, in which foam from the same part of the fuel tank struck a shuttle's thermal tiles. "We've got some backtracking to do," he said.

The board has yet to order any foam or thermal tile impact tests, Gehman said. Over the years, NASA has shot .22-caliber bullets, BB pellets and even ice at tiles, and the board wants to read up on this "enormous library of testing" first, he said.

"Before we go ordering NASA to do things, the first thing we're doing is getting smart," Gehman said.

The board began its work within hours of Columbia's breakup on Feb. 1. The shuttle was traveling at 18 times the speed of sound and was just minutes away from a Florida touchdown when contact was lost. All seven astronauts aboard were killed.

The newest member of the 10-person panel, former Air Force Secretary Sheila Widnall, will join her colleagues later this week. Additional members are being sought to include more scientific experts and quell criticism from members of Congress who contend the board is not independent enough of NASA.


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: astronomers; caib; california; columbiatragedy; feb12003; nasa; shuttledebris; spaceshuttle
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To: aristeides
My point since the Trent Lott affair, good post! I don't know how they can even sleep being such hypocrites!
181 posted on 02/19/2003 2:53:26 PM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
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To: bvw
you have a gang of thugs kicking on a poster you think is weak and down.

You sound downright paranoid, but I'm sure I'm not the first one to say that to you.

So you think Toddie is weak and down? Good to know.

182 posted on 02/19/2003 2:55:27 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Howlin
Nice twist, there Howlin. No, I do not think Todd is weak or down -- he puts up his ideas and he backs them up -- but I reckon that y'all do, which is why the gang-up.
183 posted on 02/19/2003 3:12:40 PM PST by bvw
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To: bonesmccoy
May be we should show up!

If one of youall can arrange it, I would be happy to go. It's not far to Houston.
184 posted on 02/19/2003 5:38:52 PM PST by XBob
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To: wirestripper
66- we agree - you wrote

"I believe it punched a depression in the tiles and damaged the honeycomb panel underneath.

The eventual burn out damaged the RCC supports and glove support as well as the wiring.

As the structure failed the problem got worse and led to loss of control and the shuttle.

185 posted on 02/19/2003 5:55:13 PM PST by XBob
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To: TLBSHOW
LOL, just got in, and I am just sitting here enjoying this...
186 posted on 02/19/2003 6:59:24 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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To: aristeides
They might be worse than leftists...LOL
187 posted on 02/19/2003 7:02:08 PM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: Joe Hadenuf
This one or the other thread? LOL

I just call truth as I know it to be and I get slammed but hey I know I am right and that counts for something right!
188 posted on 02/19/2003 7:03:42 PM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
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To: Howlin
Nobody believes a word you say anymore.

Howlin has spoken for everyone on the Free Republic....Again.......

189 posted on 02/19/2003 7:05:49 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Fred Mertz; Joe Hadenuf
It is really funny but then again its sad. As Howlin would say make up your mind! LOL

I hear they found another piece today, what will be interesting is what piece's they are missing.
190 posted on 02/19/2003 7:15:35 PM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
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To: wirestripper
bump 184
191 posted on 02/19/2003 10:10:10 PM PST by XBob
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To: XBob
I've got what I think is a new twist. I'm having trouble dealing with a problem that first shows up very near the beginning of the aero heating and yet the Columbia lasts almost all the way until the end of aero heating about 7 minutes later.

The only explaination I can come with is that the initial breach was very small and grew slowly and in away that didn't damage the structure quickly.

I think the intial breach was no more than a half inch or so in the RCC leading edge. The breach had to be well outboard of the wheel well on the left side and just under the leading edge. The first sensors to go were farther out and back on the wing. There wiring runs out along the wing where they can be burned long before the wires along the wheel well were burned.

The wing is traveling at about a 40 degree of attack, so a breach on the leading edge bottom would hit the leading edge bulkhead near its top edge and burn through. The breach itself would grow slowly due to it's edges burning. Hot gases are now running inside the top surface of the wing, softning the aluminum skin, and damaging the RTV bonding the upper tiles. Top surface tiles start peeling off, not the bottom surface. This is the early debris. Extra heating also noted on the body above the wing from a blow through.

As the RSS breach grows larger and the plama stream changes direction from the roll reversals, other sensors start failing, temperatures raise. The wing is losing structural strength in its top surface and eventually folds back and comes off altogether, the shuttle tumbles and major parts fly off everywhere.

The idea is a small entrance wound, but a large exit one.

What do you think?
192 posted on 02/19/2003 11:57:17 PM PST by John Jamieson
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To: John Jamieson
interesting idea. i will look at it when i am fresh and get back to you tomorrow. I am going to crash now.

however, initially, i think you need to look at all of the the 25 sensor out slide show (save them all) from NASA, andf look at the sequence, location, type of problem, and wiring, and we can discuss it tomorrow (sorry, later today)
193 posted on 02/20/2003 2:03:45 AM PST by XBob
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Howlin has spoken for everyone on the Free Republic....Again.......

I remember when Howlin and TLBSHOW were good buddies. That was back before TLB committed the mortal sin...questioning one of Pres. Bush's policies.

194 posted on 02/20/2003 5:02:14 AM PST by NittanyLion
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To: NittanyLion
Hehehe....That doesn't shock me....But it did make me laugh.
195 posted on 02/20/2003 8:57:41 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Hehehe....That doesn't shock me....But it did make me laugh.

What makes me laugh is watching the two flame each other. One's as bad as the other, yet they both get indignant over the opposite's actions.

196 posted on 02/20/2003 12:26:21 PM PST by NittanyLion
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