Legend of a 'noble South' rises again

Sun Movie Critic ^ | February 16, 2003 | Chris Kaltenbach

[GOPcapitalist]

So at worst, the North and Lincoln ended slavery for political reasons. At worst.

Not entirely. The additional contents of that "at worst" scenario was a horrific cost in human lives (some 600,000 total), the physical economic destruction of a country by a bitter war, and the increasing centralization of power in Washington and away from the state and local levels.

And still an absolute good came out of it.

That single absolute good was among many unnecessarily pursued absolute horrors.

This Spooner almost seems like he wants the South to be congratulated for at least being honest scumbags.

His statements toward the south reflect their consistency and their attempts, at least in idea, to adhere to their claimed root principle - the idea of self government. Spooner detested slavery and fought for its abolition all of his life. But he also recognized that achievement of that abolition on fraudulent pretenses and at a horrific cost with equally appalling yet wholly unnecessary evils accompanying it was itself a moral wrong. According to the logic of ethical conduct, moral ends are spoiled when they are achieved by immoral means. Spooner, a man whose devotion to the abolition of slavery was without question, recognized that and called Mr. Lincoln's war what it was - an unnecessary and brutal sham.

[GOPcapitalist]

In fact, New Orleans always votes heavily democratic. That is reality. Trying to use that as an excuse for Terrlel's

Ah, but I do not seek it as an excuse. Read the history of this discussion. You will find that mac_truck has been arguing that the non-black voters outside of Orleans parish voted in a majority for Mary Landrieu and that is simply not so. While it is true that the majority in the rest of the state was too slim to overcome New Orleans' solid Democrat majority, it is not deniable that the majority elsewhere in the state, although slim, favored Terrell.

[Ohioan]

It is my understanding that the NAACP actually purchased the rights to Song of the South. If that is the case, then would Disney even be able to reproduce it? I think it is very sad really. Song of the South was a delightful movie. I guess it just won't do to have anybody see a black man in the old south portrayed as a happy and well-adjusted individual. It isn't conducive to the agenda and counters the propaganda of the racist liberals.

I would like more information on this report, if you have any idea where it could be obtained. Since the NAACP has tried to promote a confrontation between the races in the South for 94 years, they would have made such a purchase for one reason, and one reason only. But there is also the question of the price--it should have been expensive, and should have been a major budget item for the Fabian leadership of the NAACP, which in the days when "Song of The South" was originally issued, was still in the hands of frothy White Socialist hatemongers.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

[F16Fighter]

"Get a grip...There's plenty of southern heritage to go around after the rebellion's battle flag is finally put away. Unless by this comment you are suggesting that the only true americans are southern, in which case good luck in DU."

Me "get a grip"?? LOL...

Hey Sparky -- Before you go accusing anybody of membership in "DU," I'd suggest you grab yourself a big ol' mug of chamomile tea and read a little bit closer into my post. There just might be context other than what your imagination may have fabricated.

[Ohioan]

Your response to F16Fighter is a bit irrational, don't you think:

Get a grip. Taking the confederate flag off the courthouse wall and the statehouse spire isn't the end of the world. There's plenty of southern heritage to go around after the rebellion's battle flag is finally put away. Unless by this comment you are suggesting that the only true americans are southern, in which case good luck in DU.

What he is saying is that the Left has been attacking all aspects of our heritage. That is most certainly true. The Southern heritage is only one aspect of a broader American heritage, but it is a very distinct heritage, that deserves the adherence of the Southern people, whether you choose to denigrate it or not. Wherever you may be from, I am sure, also has a distinct heritage, which one would hope that you uphold and maintain.

America was never intended to be a monolithic society. We are the antithesis of what Pol Pot sought to build in Cambodia, or which Stalin and Hitler tried to build in Europe. And in their better understanding of that reality, the South has indeed done a better job than most of the rest of us in affirming the real American heritage. Consequently, those who want to build a monolithic human society--an anthropoid ant hill, if you will-hate the South even more than the rest of us, and have made it their most heavily demonized target. (See The Persuasive Use Of Images.)

William Flax

[sweetliberty]

I believe it was from two gentlemen who are Sons of Confederate Veterans and run a little store that sells confederate memorabilia near Harrison, Arkansas called "The General's Mercantile". I had inquired about Song of the South and commented about it not being available any longer. They had a copy, but it had Japanese subtitles and they had to obtain it from the UK I believe it was and they told me that the NAACP had bought the rights to Song of the South in the United States. You might be able to get more information by contacting Sons of Confederate Veterans. Here is the link to their website.

Sons of Confeserate Veterans National Website

[F16Fighter]

Thanks for your cogent analyses and articulation throughout this thread...

[mac_truck]

You will find that mac_truck has been arguing that the non-black voters outside of Orleans parish voted in a majority for Mary Landrieu and that is simply not so.

No. You will find me arguing that Dixie let the GOP down by failing to win the state DESPITE New Orleans. Everyone (except you) knew which way N.O. parish would go.

The issue that saved Landrieu was Sugar, and the conservative white votes that went with it. Apparently proving that confederates don't mind a protective tariff as long as they get the protection.

[GOPcapitalist]

No.

Quite to the contrary. When I noted the simple fact that, minus New Orleans, Terrell won a majority in the state, you accused me of lying. I pulled the vote totals and demonstrated that this was so, thereby making you the liar.

[mac_truck]

There just might be context other than what your imagination may have fabricated.

I have read your comments and stand by mine. If you meant something other than what you said, then clarify your position. If you disagree with something I said then explain what nd why. For example, I said

There's plenty of southern heritage to go around after the rebellion's battle flag is finally put away.

Do you disagree, and if so why?

[GOPcapitalist]

The issue that saved Landrieu was Sugar, and the conservative white votes that went with it.

Those who did were in a minority, as Terrell won the non-New Orleans population of the state. At best all you can say is that this minority of sugar tariff voters diminished Terrell's majority in the rest of the state, thus making it impossible to overcome the massive deficit caused by New Orleans. In fact, that is often how southern political races occur - non-black voters must vote in relative unanimaty themselves to win, because anything reflecting a less-than-landslide GOP leaning in the population as a whole will be skewed into a Democrat win by the 95% black vote that they irrationally give to the plantation masters at the DNC.

[mac_truck]

Your orignal comment.

Suzie Terrell won the state excluding New Orleans parish.

Did Terrell win Caddo Parish? (no) Did Terrell win Calcasieu parish? (no) Did Terrell win E. Baton Rouge parish (no)....

(yawn)

[groanup]

"If you can't see that the moral repugnance of such an institution transcends simple economics then nothing I can say will change that. And respecting an individual while seeing nothing wrong with discriminating against them as a race is wrong, too, regardless of how it is suger-coated."

I'm much too weary to reply to all of your misrepresentations about me, however this one is beyond the pale. You put words in my mouth and predjudices in my mind. How dare you. I will not stoop to your level of name-calling and, furthermore, you should be called on the carpet for your assumptions. If your m. o. is to bash Southerners by parlaying the race card I would suggest that you take your debate to DU where such tactics are daily fare.

[groanup]

"Sure, as long as the black "boys" -as grown black men were called then- knew their place."

Ignoble, abject, base, coarse, craven, degenerate.

"No, you just defend racists unconditionally"

Ignorant, illiterate.

[Brices Crossroads]

"the majority outside New Orleans favored Terrell"

You are quite right. My only point is that Terrell, who was supposedly more moderate and electable than the conservative Woody Jenkins actually did significantly worse in the rest of the state, although she did slightly better in Orleans Parish. Some of this was due to Landrieu's so-called "sugar issue" in which socially conservative, normally Republican voters in Acadiana abandoned their moral beliefs to support a protectionist position.

The other nail in Terrell's coffin was John Cooksey's refusal to back her, which cost her dearly in the normally Republican 5th District. Republican turnout in this district was further depressed because of bitter feelings in the 5th District Congressional primary.

Many factors combined to doom Terrell. But they had one thing in common. They resulted in a much smaller plurality for Terrell among white, normally Republican voters, ie-Landrieu got a larger share of normally Republican voters in 2002 than she did in 1996. This would have had to be true because her plurality in Orleans Parish was 20,000 votes less in 2002 than it had been in 1996. If Terrell had gotten the same share of white, normally Republican voters in 2002 that Jenkins got in 1996, she would have won. Unfortunately, much as we might like to blame Orleans Parish for Landrieu's win, it was a failure of turnout on the part of the Republicans.

[F16Fighter]

"I have read your comments and stand by mine. If you meant something other than what you said, then clarify your position. If you disagree with something I said then explain what nd why."

First, please allow me to apologize for failing to recognize I was participating in an Inquisition of sorts...

You somehow are deluded into believing you comprehended my post (#354), whereas I merely pointed out that you were oblivious to its actual context -- that is what we "disagree" upon.

However, all is not lost -- for an articulate synopsis and continuum of my observation, try referencing Ohioan's post (#365).

[mac_truck]

The Southern heritage is only one aspect of a broader American heritage, but it is a very distinct heritage, that deserves the adherence of the Southern people, southrons whether you choose to denigrate it or not.

No, the neo-rebs choose to denigrate it, by their absurd adherance to concepts such as Lincoln the tyrant, Northern War of Agression, and (yes) symbols like the rebellion's battle flag. Which until recently adorned courthouse walls and state house spires across the south. There is absolutely nothing irrational about stating that theres plenty of southern heritage left after the battle flag is put away.

[GOPcapitalist]

You are quite right. My only point is that Terrell, who was supposedly more moderate and electable than the conservative Woody Jenkins actually did significantly worse in the rest of the state, although she did slightly better in Orleans Parish.

I think a lot of that is attributable to the election dynamics of presidential year versus non presidential year, even when the race being a runoff is taken into account. Presidential years typically raise the profile of elections in general and prompt voters to return a few weeks later in the event of a runoff (this also happened in '96 for the runoffs in some of those congressional districts that were altered in the wake of the Vera case).

[SCDogPapa]

There's plenty of southern heritage to go around after the rebellion's battle flag is finally put away

Put away,,put away??? Oh, yeah,,I remember why they attack out heritage and want the Battle Flag put away.
It's because they are sceeeeerd!!!

RAISE THE REBEL FLAG

They are afraid. They tremble in fear at the very sight of the Confederate flag. They want more than ever to eradicate it from the face of the earth. Yes, the enemies of the flag are afraid. If you doubt the fear, read some of the almost hysterical columns during and subsequent to the election in Georgia. Some of these editorial comments are more like the hysterical braying of a frightened jackass than of reasoned argument. The same goes for some of the more hysterical diatribes directed against Trent Lott, hardly a menacing figure, but they equate Lott with THAT FLAG, simply because he is Southern. Liberals as well as so called “conservatives” alike are united in their opposition to the flag because it flies in the face of everything they are for - total control. Don’t think that mainstream conservatives are on our side, the only thing they are interested in conserving is their bloated salaries, their bloated egos, and what they see is their share of the control over those of us living in fly over country.

Yes, the tyrants of political correctness - the Axis of media/political elite, corporate cash and a constantly shifting third partner which alternates depending on what institution is being assaulted - are afraid. That Axis has inflicted far more damage on this country than George Bush’s Axis of Evil, and they are far more dangerous simply because they are here, and they are now.

Make no mistake about it, the very sight of a Confederate flag, in any context sends chills up their spines. Why the fear? The forces arrayed against us are dedicated to the proposition that all men and created equally cowardly, and equally easily misled. The Confederate flag challenges their proposition. They know the power of that flag. Unfortunately, many of us do not. There are those among us that see the Confederate flag as a historic symbol suitable only for display in a historic context. Others see it as a symbol of Southern heritage and pride. Both camps are at least partially right. However, the Confederate flag can no longer be viewed in the context of the 19th Century, it must be viewed in terms of the late 20th and early 21st Centuries. We must view it as our enemy really views it, not the propaganda version used to win over the ignorant. Once we realize that, we can easily see why those people fear the flag.

The very fact that it is commonly referred to as “the rebel flag” and that is how the enemy sees it. Those that prefer to take a historic view refer to it as the Confederate battle flag or as the Confederate Naval Jack, depending on whether or not it is square or rectangular. No matter what the proper historic term is, the common perception of the flag is one of rebellion. At this stage in the country’s history it has been determined by our homegrown Axis of Evil, that rebellion, and any symbols signifying rebellion and defiance must be suppressed if not eradicated. That is the reason why the rebels that founded this country have been subjected to such vilification over the last several years. Anything that smacks of challenging big, centralized, far-reaching, and intrusive government, and anyone displaying that flag are looked upon as openly challenging the fundamental concepts of the tyranny of political correctness that has been imposed by either force of law, the threat of mob action, or psychological terrorism.

To those that think that they can preserve the flag and the historic context under which it was born without rocking the boat must become aware that the tyranny of political correctness isn’t interested in whether or not it is viewed in a historic nature or not. All they want is to eradicate not just the flag but also the meaning of the flag. They do not intend to allow it to exist much longer. So those that do not wish to rock the boat must realize that the boat they are in is not only rocking, but is also sinking. To those that say, “put away the flag, we are all Americans now,” I say wake up and smell the coffee, the attacks on the flag have increased since September 11th, because they took your reaction to those terrorist attacks as a sign of weakness, not one of conciliation. Your olive branch was flung to the ground and trampled upon.

At this time it is the duty of all those who oppose tyranny in our land to Raise That Rebel Flag. It doesn’t matter if you live in the North, the South, the East or the West. The spirit of rebellion inherent in all Americans must be reborn. It was Southern, as well as Northern rebels that won our independence. And it was that alliance that brought greatness of this country. Washington, Jefferson, Madison, and Mason, Southerners all, joined with Franklin, Adams, and Hamilton, Northerners all, to shape and mold this land.

In the waning days of Soviet tyranny over Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Poland, those demanding their freedom often marched carrying that flag. That flag flew over the Berlin Wall the night that odious symbol of oppression fell, passing into the ashbin of history. Don’t think that this went unnoticed by the cultural Marxists.

Is it any wonder that big media, the primary purveyor of politically correct tyranny has taken a stand full square against that flag? No!! Do the purveyors of politically correct tyranny have a right to fear that flag? Yes!! For as long as that flag exists it may, might, and does raise the specter of open defiance of, and the ultimate defeat of politically correct tyranny. So, our duty as members of the resistance to that tyranny is to Raise the Rebel Flag. Raise it whenever, and wherever you can. Raise it high so that others may see it. Raise it and people respond. The fight is not just about preserving the past; it is about regaining control of the present, and creating a future free of tyranny, the tyranny that rules through fear and intimidation in the guise of sensitivity and tolerance. Those that have a vested interest in the preservation of politically correct tyranny tremble every time they see this flag. We want to make them have sleepless nights and darker days. The spirit of that flag must be seared upon our very souls. We can only be conquered if we remain afraid, remain too timid to stand up, look them squarely in the eye and say, “We are not afraid any longer.”

by Greg Hanson
Staff Columnist
Southern Independence Party
www.siptn.org
December, 2002

[sweetliberty]

Excellent post! It has not gone unnoticed that the tyrants of revisionism and political correctness hate the south. The south has been mocked and reviled in the depictions of Hollywood and in the rhetoric of puffed-up politicians. The anti-American organizations that foist themselves on the American people under the guise of civil rights have become the self-appointed standard bearers leading the charge against all things southern and shouting the battle cry of "racism", a word unequaled in its capacity to weaken the knees of the strongest among us. Even among FReepers there are a handful of sanctimonious blowhards who seem to exist to disrupt the threads where southerners gather to celebrate our heritage, history and identity. Why?

Your post addressed some of the reasons very well. I suppose to some the flag is one of rebellion as your post suggests, and I would agree with that under certain circumstances, but I see it more as a banner representing a fierce independence, an independence of spirit which defined the earlier days of our country, which led the south to later refuse the north's move away from the Constitution, choosing rather to be a separate nation, an independence of spirit which refused every attempt to dilute its culture and belief in itself. It is that independent spirit which has withstood to this day the assaults of intolerance in the name of "tolerance" and refused to surrender its rights of free speech. That flag and the spirit it represents shines a light in the darkness of history and holds up a mirror to the face of hypocrisy and the image is unbearable to those whom it condemns, who think that the answer is to destroy the mirror. But I say that we need to hold on to that flag now more than ever. I have heard it said that we southerners can't let go the past. I beg to differ. It isn't that we refuse to let go of the past; it is that we refuse to let go of hope for the future. As long as that flag flies, there is hope that America will rediscover what made her great and reject the tyranny that has come upon us from within and without.