Assault rifles offer a bit too much for home defense

Indy Star ^

[Blood of Tyrants]

I don't know a thing about the Cetme rifles.

[Blood of Tyrants]

I don't know a thing about the Cetme rifles. Except that their ergonomics are not nearly so friendly as the FAL.

[Billy_bob_bob]

Yepper, that's the one! Good call! Did you like the part at the end where they blew up an old car with dynamite? Wheee! The "whump" you hear about three seconds after the blast is the engine block returning to earth. Great fun for the whole family!

[Billy_bob_bob]

I'd like to see that video, it sounds worth watching. I'm interested in "real-world" results from rounds being fired, I've heard so much balderdash over the years that I'm inclined to believe what I see with my own eyes. If you can find the name of the video and where I might get a copy I would appreciate it.

[Redcloak]

$600 for a Kalashnikov? Sure, it's a good, rugged gun. They're fun to shoot. But $600?

And since when can 7.62 X 39 mm go through an engine block? Is there an engine out there with a wax block that I've never heard of?

[RAWGUY]

For the less-well informed in these matters, the AK's 7.62mm round approximates that oh-so-POWERFUL round, the .38 SPECIAL, in ballistic potential. It just does it at a longer range.

Actually the 7.62mm is a .30 cal round and the NATO spec is the same as a .308 winchester and if you have armour piercing, or steel tipped rounds they will penetrate and engine block with no problems at all. The m14 was cambered for this round as well as the m60 machine gun. The max effective range for m14 is 450 meters...with scope 1100 meters. Trajectory is different but still very similar to the 30.06 used in the M1 Garad. Please do not fire it at my car.

Thanks and GOD Bless,

RAWGUY

[Charles Martel]

I plan on getting one of the Remington 11-87's which have been remade into combat configuration as soon as I can afford it. I don't think Remington makes one but am not sure.

I'm pretty sure that Remington does offer "Police" marked models of the 870 and 11-87, complete with ghost-ring rear sight and rifle-type blade front sight. Extended magazine, short barrel, black plastic furniture. Find a local gun shop where the off-duty cops hang out; they'll either have the "Law Enforcement" models in stock or will happily order the model of your choice.

IIRC, Remington does not feature those variants in the consumer products catalog. Check the prices, too - it might be cheaper to pick up a plain 11-87 and ship it off to Scattergun Technologies (Wilson).

[MileHi]

Um, the poster was refering to the 7.62x39. Certainly more potent than a .38 but it is not a .308 either. Think 30-30 Win with a pointy bullet.

[harpseal]

The AK-47 round is 7.63 X 39 mm. the Nato round is 7.62 X 51 mm. There is also a Russian round for the Mosin Nagant rifles and there are several other 7.62 rounds that do have metric measurements even though called such as the .303 British.

[MileHi]

What do you know about ghost ring sights? Are they a close range sight? I have never had a chance to use one. I take it they do not work like a peep sight.

[from occupied ga]

Specs on 7.62 x 39

[teeman8r]

well said

[MoGalahad]

Utterly irrelevant. Why I keep a weapon is no business of anyone else as long as I use it responsibly. These kind of smoke screens are presented to distract us from the fundamental issue, i.e., the right to keep and bear arms as a continuing deterent against tyranny.

[Charles Martel]

Does this include the Cemte rifles (.308) that I have seen at a lot of the gun shows lately? They look a little rough, but not to the point of being junk. I was thinking of getting one.

Century Int'l Arms seems to be the source for those CETMEs. I've read of some problems, but most seem satisfied with the rifles. The most common problem is a barrel not correctly "timed" to the receiver, so that the front sight is canted a few degrees left or right of the barrel centerline. The result is a gun that cannot be made to shoot to the point of aim, or require excessive windage correction when adjusting the sights. The problem can be corrected.

The CETME "clone" rifles are built on one of several types of receivers; mostly the stamped steel or the cast stainless steel. Both work, though the stamped version is made by Hesse Arms (or whatever name it is using these days) and there have been dimensional errors reported. If you check out a CETME, try to insert and remove a magazine. If the magazine binds and must be slammed in and removed with a mighty tug, it's probably a Hesse receiver.

The cast stainless receivers look pretty much the same, but seem to be of higher quality. That receiver was originally manufactured a few years ago by Special Weapons, LLC and the design, I believe, was sold to Century. There is also a cast aluminum H&K/CETME receiver which is ugly as sin - they have been improved lately (appearance-wise) but can be identified by the integral scope mounts. For not much more money, you can do better.

If you really want a HK/CETME type rifle, there is a screaming deal available right now at Federal Arms. They have the CETME rifle assembled on the stainless steel receiver for $299.95, and they throw in five magazines (Item No. RI1073X). Call them at (763) 780-5747 and ask for Harlan. I have no stake in their business, just a satisfied customer passing along what looks like a good deal. It's a "limited time offer", though - so don't wait too long if you want one shipped to the FFL of your choice.

If your tastes run more towards FALs, Harlan can help you there, too. Federal Arms has the matching-numbers Austrian StG-58 parts kits and Imbel metric receivers. Can't go wrong with that combo, and the guys at the FAL Files message board will help you out immeasurably whether you build it yourself or decide to pay someone to do the tough part.

[MileHi]

Interesting test of various Armor Piercing ammo. Never shot any except a little I loaded for my .06. I found a charge that prints right with my 165gr Partitions at 100 yards.

My Russian SKS groups 6-8" easy at 200 yards with the cheap hollow point ammo and punches through 1/8" plate (it was my gong but it only lasted one session - LOL!).

[harpseal]

Ghost ring sights are not as accurate per se as regular peep sights do the larger appreture at the rear the theory is thatthe rear appreture disappears when the eye is at the proper distance and one then just puts the front sight on the target. They work well at under 100 yards for relatively large targets. However, their big advantage is that they allow one to very rapidly lay the shotgun onto the target.

[MileHi]

Thanks. Cooper speaks favorably of them but I wasn't clear of the application. I guess the turkey sight on my scattergun will work fine and I can see it in low light conditions pretty well.

[Phyto Chems]

It looks like to me that is just what I would want to take back a goverment that goes astray. Sort of like what we have today.

[vt_crosscut]

I just bought a Siaga rifle in 7.62x39 at a gun show for $139. I'm a college student and about to get married, so my budget is pretty tight. It's basically an AK reciever with a regular rifle stock (no pistol grip). It shoots about as well as I can aim it.

My only complaint is that it's limited to 10 rounds, but I've already found ways around that. Anyone else have any experience with these rifles? Some day I'll be able to afford a nice AR 15, but this one serves the purpose until then.

[MileHi]

My SKS holds 10 rounds and is loaded via stripper clips. I don't feel at any disadvantage, it loads in seconds. It is tough to "top it off" though.