Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Stefan Stackhouse
"Sorry to bring all you starry-eyed dreamers down to earth, but the real limiting factor in all of this will be economics. Any travel even approaching -- not to mention exceeding -- the speed of light will require enormous amounts of energy. Last I checked energy still cost money. Even if we finally get fusion reactors, energy will not be "free". The economic fact of life is that resources are not infinite, and thus they do have a cost. There is no such thing as a free lunch. So the question thus becomes: what economic benefit will be gained by tooling around the universe to pay for the enormous quantities of energy that will need to be allocated for this project?"

Comment 1: If the human race does not destroy itself or encounter a cosmic catastrophe such as an asteroid, we will have to pack our bags and relocate eventually anyhow (or our descendants will). The Sun cooks everything in about 8 billion years.

Comment 2: "If any of these schemes were feasible, intelligent ETs would have reduced them to practise millions of years ago. We do not observe their traffic; hence either there are no intelligent ETs or none of these schemes are feasible."

Comment 3: Robert Bussard, in Acta Astronautica, described a fusion ramjet operating using the interstellar medium as propellant (rare hydrogen atoms) which potentially can reach very high fractions of "C". Nobody knows how to build a fusion engine--yet.

Comment 4: Neglecting Einstein, a kilogram of mass at "c" has 4.89 times ten to the 17th power joules of kinetic energy. It turns out that one "gee" acceleration is 1.03 light years per square year. If one could accelerate at one "gee" for one year, one would be "near" light speed and 1/2 light year from earth. A year is about 3.15 times ten to the seventh seconds. Thus the kilogram would require about 1500 megawatts delivered continuously for one year at 100% efficiency and directed into propulsive power to reach near "c". To account for various inefficiencies, call it 2000 megawatts. Roughly the output of two large terrestrial generating plants--per kilogram.

If one plans to take the propulsion along for the ride, the problem is to reduce these power plants to a small fraction of a kilogram in mass and volume. (Otherwise there is no room for payload, crew, structure). Scale up as necessary until you hit "Enterprise". Something like compressing the Sun into a small space.

Human beings are not (yet) able to deal with these energies, powers, durations.

Comment 5: One question I have saved up for the Almighty is: "Why the heck did you put everything so bleeping far apart?" It is almost as if the Universe is designed to prevent travel/contact/exploration...

--Boris

56 posted on 02/16/2003 5:28:05 PM PST by boris
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies ]


To: boris
Boris, this will come as no surprise to you, but I believe in Angels (though I won't agape--second definition in your dictionary reference, not the first regarding 'love'-- the crowd with the 'whys' or hows). From whence come these beings? They exist (as far as I'm concerned) in a realm, a reality; what is the nature of that reality, as it differs from our reality our perception? I have a sneaking suspicion their realm differs mostly in temporal orientation rather than spatial orientation alone.
63 posted on 02/16/2003 5:55:26 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies ]

We humans think of ourselves as existing in the present. In actuality, we 'experience' only the past of events around us. Our existence could be in a flux state, caught between past and future, present to our existence individually but not in the background present of the whole universe.
65 posted on 02/16/2003 5:59:25 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies ]

To: boris
Comment 5: One question I have saved up for the Almighty is: "Why the heck did you put everything so bleeping far apart?" It is almost as if the Universe is designed to prevent travel/contact/exploration...

C.S. Lewis's answer was that if intelligent life has been created elsewhere, it has been kept far away to PROTECT THEM FROM US.

83 posted on 02/16/2003 7:25:19 PM PST by Stefan Stackhouse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies ]

To: boris
Comment 1: If the human race does not destroy itself or encounter a cosmic catastrophe such as an asteroid, we will have to pack our bags and relocate eventually anyhow (or our descendants will). The Sun cooks everything in about 8 billion years.

I rather doubt that things are going to go on for that long, but in any case we do not need travel at speeds anything close to c in order to colonize potentially teraformable planets. If the colonists are going to be taking a one-way trip anyway, then what's the rush? The exploration, teraforming, and colonization of other planets would be an enterprise spanning many centuries, if not millennia -- totally unprecedented in human history up to now. It would take a very, very long time before we would be up to it, but still just a fraction of your 8 billion years. And again, we get back to economics -- it isn't going to happen unless and until someone can figure out how to provide a "return on investment" to planet Earth for the interstellar colonization ventures. Probably the real need will be to find a way to send cargos of very rare minerals back to earth both quickly and inexpensively. There is probably a tradeoff between those two, and the realities of economics will probably put the premium on "inexpensively" rather than "quickly."

87 posted on 02/16/2003 7:35:01 PM PST by Stefan Stackhouse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson