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1 posted on 02/09/2003 6:17:12 AM PST by Richard Poe
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To: Richard Poe
pssst! You forgot the 'vanity alert' ; )

J
2 posted on 02/09/2003 6:26:33 AM PST by jedwardtremlett
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To: Richard Poe
This was all interesting--I went to bed before the exchange, however.

The one thing that struck me (a disinterested observer) was that your argument didn't address his arguments, at least in the initial post, but was an ad hominem attack on his motives. No matter how well justified the attack, it is still a logical error to use that to undermine his arguments.

I, frankly, am astounded that the moderators didn't pull the thread. Why? Because a similar ad hominem attack by HIM, with a viewpoint contrary to that on this board, would have been jerked immediately.

3 posted on 02/09/2003 6:31:30 AM PST by jammer
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To: Richard Poe
Richard, is your conflict with Justin himself or with the anti-war movement in general, Justin serving as a convenient focus for your argument? Because if this is strictly a personal thing, then it's at best unseemly to play it out all over the forum. On the other hand, if it's a collision of principles, then maybe cooler heads (and language) are better tools for enlightening the discourse.

That said, the anti-war shibboleth about "just war" is just a smokescreen. The United States has never hesitated to take the battle to the enemy, even if the threat was far removed from our own shores. We warred with the Barbary pirates, the Puerto Ricans, the Cubans, the Filipinos, and the Mexicans -- all of which could be considered "wars of conquest" if you broaden the definition enough. So American economic expansionism, backed by American military might, is nothing new.

Even if we concede that our interest in Iraq is petroleum-based, so what? We didn't compel Saddam Hussein to gas his Kurdish countrymen or pillage Kuwait. We allowed him to retain his throne in Gulf War I by establishing monitoring guidelines under a UN resolution whose provisions he promptly defied. Although there is no evidence he has them, there is little doubt he is bent on developing nuclear and biological weapons. Justin seems to think the sole target will be Israel, but it's just as likely that Kuwait, Iran, and the US will fall in his crosshairs.

A war against Iraq, aimed at overthrowing Saddam Hussein, is perfectly legitimate morally and politcally.

4 posted on 02/09/2003 6:50:00 AM PST by IronJack
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To: Richard Poe
Did anyone else notice that this was posted yesterday? By Richard Poe? Perhaps Richard Poe should remember?

Shouldn't the thread be locked, whacked or moved to chat? That's the normal fate of duplicate posts.

In fact, when the guy who posts a duplicate thread notices it's a dupe, the guy personally alerts the thread moderator and begs that the thread be removed.

5 posted on 02/09/2003 7:02:42 AM PST by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: Richard Poe
"At issue was Raimondo's patriotism ..."

At issue is Richard Poe's smearing of anyone who disagrees with his wacked-out theories of who is "really" behind the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

He claims he wants to discuss my "ideology" -- but that is hardly a secret. I'm a libertarian: I believe that we cannot have an empire AND a constitutional republic. And my view is being confirmed even as Ashcroft prepares what Drudge calls "Part II" of the "Patriot" Act: secret arrest, stripping Americans of their citizenship, government spies everywhere. To call my patriotism into question, in this context, is to virtually call for my arrest by our war-maddened leaders.

To that, I can only reply, as I did in my original column on this subject: Go ahead -- make my day.

14 posted on 02/09/2003 8:58:27 AM PST by Justin Raimondo
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To: Richard Poe
Do you believe that 9-11 was a "false flag" operation?
21 posted on 02/09/2003 9:47:51 AM PST by mr.pink
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To: Richard Poe
BUMP
28 posted on 02/09/2003 10:14:09 AM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
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To: Richard Poe
Poe seems to have gotten his facts right about Raimondo and Pravda, and I continue to differ with Poe's conclusion. Like Raimondo, I think the world would be a better place without a US hyperpower, and I respect Raimondo's goal of undermining that monopoly.
Just as the American federalist concept of shared power among competing states prevented tyranny (for awhile, anyway), a multi-polar world with competing powers would be a better, and probably safer one than a One World Government, run by the USA or any other power. Safer still would be a world where the US followed our founders' advice to be a commercial and moral leader for the world, but not to meddle in other countries' internal politics.
35 posted on 02/09/2003 10:33:57 AM PST by j_bottoms
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To: Richard Poe
Raimondo asks us to believe that this motley collection of religious fanatics and cutthroats-for-hire somehow managed to carry out the 9-11 attack all by itself, without anyone's help.

Um, assuming you have the money for pilot training (per bin Laden) exactly how much help do you need to threaten people with a box knife?

61 posted on 02/10/2003 7:16:57 AM PST by Sloth
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