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To: ancient_geezer
I notice you never did actually answer my point as regards being dependant up a tariff for government revenues

Well, I'll answer it now by saying that if we continue getting most of our revenue from internal sources, then we wouldn't be dependent upon tariffs for revenue. And to the extent that we are, our dependency will not be on any one government, but on maintaining good general trading relations with the outside world.

Political interference as regards to trade, comes predominately from Exports, not imports.

Could you elaborate on this?

Foreign trade could simply be prohibited by statute under the commerce clause, and meet your expressed intent to limit the loss of soverignty claimed.

There's no need to be extremist about it. Trade certainly has its benefits, and not only economic benefits either. But without any kind of firewalls, our economic affairs could be in danger of manipulation by foreign governments, particularly from those countries that don't have as clear a distinction between the private and public sectors as ours does.

677 posted on 02/21/2003 11:30:42 AM PST by inquest
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To: inquest

Political interference as regards to trade, comes predominately from Exports, not imports.

Could you elaborate on this?

Many nations we trade with maintain tight regulation over our exports to them (Japan and China being very good examples) regardless of the state of their export trade to us. Their internal economic and political concerns are of greater importance to them than selling something to the U.S..

Domestic companies desiring to trade in those nations press on the Congress Critters & State department for favorable concessions to establish or enhance those foreign markets for our goods and services. To establish that export trade with other nations we inevitably end up giving in to one or more political concessions to foreign governments trying to accomodate our businesses giving rise to our perceived loss of soverignty.

We are not dependant any more upon imports to maintain our economy than foreign nations are depedant upon our exports.

Imports merely need to maintain low prices(low labor costs) to aquire access to our markets. Add a tariff to those imports, just means lower wages to a third world laborer if he gets a wage at all, meaningless to a foreign government that is not dependant on the good graces of its population to maintain power, a laborer in such a country is just another expendable resource to sell for whatever the market will bear. If a such a nation fails to sell resources or goods to us, they simply look elswhere or tighten the belts of their populations (NK and Iraq for the extreme examples) but political concessions of concequence to us are never on the table for anything more than lipservice. (Note the lack of effect of boycotts and sanctions in third world politics.)

679 posted on 02/21/2003 12:36:30 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: inquest

But without any kind of firewalls,

The firewall is called Commerce Clause:

Constitution, Article I Section 8: The Congress shall have Power ... To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;


Taxes are expressly for revenue not control, regulation, or gaining political concessions:

Constitution, Article I Section 8: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

 

Nor are they particularly effective in achieving a desired result where foreign politics are concerned since they can only be laid upon our own populace under the constitution.

Constitution, Article I Section 9: No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.


our economic affairs could be in danger of manipulation by foreign governments, particularly from those countries that don't have as clear a distinction between the private and public sectors as ours does.

Only when our own demand more than the foreign government is willing grant. It's called leverage. Congress Critters & Presidents respond to the demands of the electorate and businesses that maintain them in there chosen profession. Foreign governments have no votes nor do they sway the electorate of this country. The electorate and our own businesses on the other hand do.

The two rules on which representative government swings:

In general, the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other.
-Voltaire (1764)

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
-George Bernard Shaw

Note that "foreign government" is not a part of either equation.

680 posted on 02/21/2003 1:02:00 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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