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Freep anti-US Dave Matthews !
Dave Matthews Band - Fan Site ^ | 02/08/2003

Posted on 02/08/2003 5:31:46 PM PST by Rain-maker

http://www.dmband.com/news/news_popup_iraq.asp
...I fear that our true motivation is about oil and our own flailing economy; about the failure to destroy Al Qaeda and about revenge. It is criminal to put our servicemen and women in harm's way and to put the lives of so many civilians on the line for the misguided frustrations of the Bush administration.
 
Bottom line: this war is wrong and this war is un-American.
 
Peacefully submitted,
Dave Matthews

(Excerpt) Read more at dmband.com ...


TOPICS: Announcements
KEYWORDS: activistactors; davematthews; freep; lamerockband; leftistdrivel; mtv; music; rock
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To: Conservative Druze
I think everyone needs to chill out. From what it appears, this article is from his own website, hes not going on national television (yet) and proclaiming his anti war beliefs. Whatever happened to freedom of speech? Despite what you may think of his beliefs, music, or apparently sexual preference, he is entitled to state them. Yes he is spouting half-baked theories. No, i dont agree with what he is saying. Cloonys comments and Sean Penns actions are far worse. Mathews, despite being ill informed is doing what everyone on this cite does: making his opinion known. I may not, and this case certainly do not, agree with his opinion, but I for one will fight for his right to say it.
If i boycotted every musician, actor, or whathave you whose opinions differed from mine, id be living in a hole right now. I dont know how half the people on this cite are able to live their lives avoiding everyone who has a differing opinion.
41 posted on 02/09/2003 5:36:14 PM PST by WashingtonCollegeofLaw (Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals.....except the weasel)
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To: Rain-maker
Is Dave even a US citizen? He was born in South Africa.
42 posted on 02/09/2003 5:37:28 PM PST by dfwgator (With apologies to Leonard Cohen.)
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To: wku man
Dave Matthews sucks!

The only reason one should ever see him live is to scam on the pretty women that are suckered into listening to his musak.

Rock, be rocked, or step aside (a-la Z-Rock).

Trajan88; TAMU Class of '88

p.s. My #1 favorite song of all time is VH's "Unchained."

43 posted on 02/09/2003 5:38:26 PM PST by Trajan88
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To: patriot5186
Bloody Friday
Chemical massacre of the people
of Halabja by the Iraqi regime March 1988

Prepared by Alex Atroushi

Every murder destroys a measure of human dignity.
Every genocide murders a piece of the whole world.

We were burnt as newly-grown plants,
In the current of poisonous winds,
And showed our dreadful wounds,
From one side of the world to the other.
But the unjust eyes of the world
Were never opened truly towards the oppressed.
The world only confined itself to a false regret, And once again,
We became a target as heaps and heaps of martyrs, We were the target of poisonous bombardments, We were the target of destructive bombs,And we remained the lonely oppressed ones of the world.
We rose from under tons of debris,
And stood up in the lands of poisonous bombings,
And we kept up standing and fighting,
Believe it, you people of tomorrow,
Believe such a history and learn a lesson,
Learn how to fight oppression in this way.*

* From the poem "Khaibar" by Mohammed Reza Abdol-Malakian.

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Halabja, standing against oppression

Joy and happiness permeated the air in Halabja.
Smiles never faded from the lips of the ever oppressed people of this town.
The Iraqi fighter planes carried out the chemical bombing of Halabja,
and some hours later the news came that Khormal, too, had suffered
chemical bombing.
The sound of laughter died down.
Children sought the shelter of their mothers' arms.
This was the beginning of the great crime of history.
On Thursday March 17, 1988, and on Friday March 18, there took place one of
the most shameful and fearful inhumane crimes of history in Halabja. The town of
Halabja was bombed with chemical and cluster bombs more than twenty times
by Iraqi fighter planes.
In every street and alley women and children rolled over one another.
The sound of crying and groans rose from every house in the town.
Many families who were sleeping happily in their beds in their liberated town,
were subjected before sunrise to chemical bombing,
and poisonous gases did not even allow them to rise from their beds.
Such was the situation on the bloody Friday of Halabja.

A Glance at the position of the town of Halabja

City of Halabja, with a population of about 70,000 is in the province of Sulaimanya, 260 kilometers north-east 
of the city of Baghdad. It is surrounded by the heights of Suran, Balambu, Shireh-roudi and Shaghan in the north,
south and east.The lake of the dam of Darbandikhan is to the west of this town. Halabja which is within 1 1 kilometers
of the nearest Iranian borderline occupies a green and fertile area covered with forest vegetation. Most of the people
of Halabja are farmers or cattle breeders. Halabja and its surrounding villages such as Khormal and Dojeyleh have for
long witnessed the struggles of the Kurds against the Iraqi regime.

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What happened to Halabja on the Bloody Friday?

The brutal massacre of the oppressed and innocent people of Halabja began before the sunrise of Friday, 17th of
March 1988. The Iraqi regime committed its most tragic and horrible crime from the beginning of the imposed war
until now against the civilian people on Friday, 17th of March. On that day, Halabja was bombarded more than twenty
times by Iraqi regime's warplanes with chemical and cluster bombs. That Friday afternoon, the magnitude of Iraqi crimes
became evident. In the streets and alleys of Halabja, corpses piled up over one another. Tens of children, while playing in
front of the their houses in the morning, were martyred instantly by cyanide gases. The innocent children did not even have
time to run back home. Some children fell down at the threshold of the door of their houses and never rose again.

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A mother who embraced her one-year-old baby, fell down two steps from her house and was martyred. In a 150 meter area in
the main street of Halabja, at least fifty women and children were martyred as a result of the deployment of the chemical weapons.
A father was sitting over the bodies of his wife and ten of his children in one of the alleys of Halabja and was wailing. The sound of
his wailing touched any cruel human being. The crimes were huge, very huge.

In a Simorgh Van, the corpses of 20 women and children who had been prepared to leave the town and the chemical bombardment
of the town had deprived them of this opportunity, made any observer stop and ponder about the depth of the catastrophe. Fatal wounds
on the corpses of these innocent people were evident.

The doors of most houses were left open and inside of each house, there were some martyred and wounded people.
The enemy had heightened the cruelty and heart-handedness to its peak and took no pity on its own people.
Saddam's crime in the chemical bombardment of Halabja has indeed been unprecedented in the history of
the imposed war. Saddam's crime in Halabja can never be compared to the tragedy of the chemical bombardment of Sardasht.
In Halabja more than five thousand people were martyred and over seven thousand more people were wounded.
Women and children formed 75 percent of the martyrs and wounded of the bloody Friday of Halabja.

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Along with Halabja, Khormal, Dojaileh and their surrounding villages were also chemically bombarded frequently
but the center of the catastrophe was Halabja.

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Nadriyeh Mohammed Fattah, a 15 year-old girl who
studied in the technical high school of Halabja

The Repetition of a Crime which Has Been Condemned Several Times

The Iraqi regime signed the 1925 protocol of Geneva of the prohibition of the deployment of the chemical and biological
weapons in wars in 1931. The regulations of the 1972 Convention of Geneva requesting all countries to cease production,
completion and conservation of all kinds of chemical and biological weapons and to demolish them and the UN 37/98 resolution
emphasizing the necessity of observing the articles and contents of the 1925 protocol and the 1972 Convention of Geneva have
also been accepted by the UN member countries including Iraq.

In late April 1987, twenty four villages of Iraq's Kurdistan were targeted by the chemical bombardment These villages were
chemically bombarded twice in less than 48 hours. Saber Ahmad Khoshnam, one of the inhabitants of the bombarded villages
in Loqmanodulleh Hospital in Tehran on 28th of April 1987, told reporters that the Iraqi warplanes dropped 18 chemical bombs
at Sheikh Dassan, Kani Bard, Pasian and Tuteman villages. He said that more than one hundred people of these villages were
wounded and that he had witnessed that an entire family in Parsian village lost their sight. In the course of the chemical
bombardment of the late April 1987 of the Iraqi villages, more than 130 innocent villagers were martyred and about five hundred
of them were wounded.

The Iraqi regime has deployed chemical weapons against its own people while the UN general secretary's representatives
during their visits to Iran in two occasions, prepared detailed reports from the deployment of the chemical weapons against
the civilian people and submitted them to the United Nations in reports number S/1 6433 and S/18852 and after the submission
of these reports by the general secretary to the Security Council, eventually this council, too, joined those individuals and
organizations who condemned Iraq's deployment of chemical weapons. But despite all these condemnations, Baghdad's
rulers have continued their crimes.

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The Gases Deployed against the People of Halabja

The Iraqi regime, in the chemical bombardment of Halabja and the surrounding towns and villages, has deployed
three kinds of chemical gases. According to the findings of Iranian physicians, the mustard, nerve and cyanide gases
have been used against civilians in Halabja and its surroundings. A group of the martyrs of the chemical bombarderat
of Halabja, after inhaling the cyanide gas, were suffocated immediately. Post-mortem examination of the bodies of
the chemical bombarderat of Halabja, has proved that the suffocation of the most of the martyrs has been due to the inhalation of cyanide gas.

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Mass media and Iraq's crimes in Halabja

The Iraqi regime's crimes in chemically bombing the Halabja town were too grave for any humanbeing to overbook.
Correspondents of the western and American mass media who have visited Halabja, found out some facts about
the horrible crimes committed by the Iraqi regime.

Also, the radio and televisions network in the United States, France, and Britain, by broadcasting a short film of
the chemical massacre of the Halabja residents, made their audiences familiar with the most horrible crimes in
the history after the atomic bombardment of Hiroshima and Nakazaki Some of the materials reelected by
the world press concerning the chemical bombardment of Halabja are as follows:

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Article by the correspondent of the London Daily., the independent, published on 23rd of March, 1988:
" ... The reported slaughter of 5,000 Kurds in Iraqi poison gas attacks underlines a dangerous new dimension
in the volatile middle east: the growth of the chemical warfare capability of several important regional powers, and
the fear that, despite efforts to curb these weapons, they could be used more widely.

".. (in producing chemical weapons) Iraq has apparently been helped by British, west German, Indian, Austrian, Belgian,
and Italian companies, despite bans on the sale of chemical that could have military use...

"... There is evidence that the Iraqis did drop poison gas bombs on the towns because the traditionally rebellious Kurds,
who have been fighting for autonomy from Baghdad for years, welcomed the Iranian (troops)."

French Television m 23rd, and 24th of March, 1988

Different French Television networks, on Thursday and Wednesday on 23rd and 24th of March 1988, the first pictures of corpses
of thousands of those martyred and wounded of the chemical bombing in Halabja were broadcast.

The commentators of the French Television, described these crimes as intolerable, disgusting and horrible. Some commentators
considered the crimes of Saddam as even more horrible than some of Hitter's crimes.

The first channel of the French Television noted that it is not the first time that the Baghdad regime had deployed chemical weapons,
however this is the first time that Iraq, is so vastly deploying them against the civilians.

Andrew Gowers, middle east editor, and Richard Johns of the London Daily, Financial Times, writing on 23rd of March, 1988:

"... What has been happening in the last year, especially the last week, in a remote corner of north-east Iraq reveals unplumbed
depths of savagery...

Alistair Hay, pathology professor at Leeds university, England, speaking on BBC Television News, and BBC Radio
World Service oh 22nd and 23rd of March, 1988:

" The Kurds have claimed for a number of months, perhaps over a year, that Iraq has been using chemical agents against them.
But this latest occasion seems to be the first really documented case that we have where chemical agents have been used.

 

 

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"Iraq has used chemical agents against Iran on a very large scale for three years now. And although the west and other
countries have been condemnatory about that use, the country (Iraq) still felt secure enough to use chemical agents.
They have used them because these agents are very effective against and opposition that has no protection and until
such time as there is perhaps an end to war war, or suff icient sanctions against Iraq to persuade it not to use chemical
agents, I'm afraid they will continue to use them or so it seems."

 

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"The United Nations have had three investigations into the use of chemical warfare agnets in the Iraq-Iran war and
they have said unequivocally on all three occasions that Iraq has used chemical warfare agents. They have said that
mustard gas was certainly used on all three occasions, that is in 1984, 1986 anti 1987. and they have also said that
they have evidenced that a nerve agent, tabun, was also used. The investigation was carried by a well qualified team, so
l have no doubt in my mind that they have been used."

Article from Halabja by David Hirt, Middle East correspondent of London Daily, the Guardian, published on March 23, 1988:

" No wounds, no blood, no traces of explosions can be found on the bodies - scores of men, women and children,
livestock and pet animals - that litter the flat-topped dwellings and crude earthen streets in this remote and neglected
Kurdish town...

 

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" The skin of the bodies is strangely discolored, with their eyes open and staring where they have not disappeared into
their sockts, a grayish slime oozing from their mouths and their fingers still grotesquely twisted.

" Death seemingly caught them almost unawares in the midst of their household chores. They had just the strength, some
of them, to make it to the doorways of their homes, only to collapse there a few feet beyond. Here a mother seems to
clasp her children in a last embrace, there an old man shields an infant from he cannot have known what...15.gif (63775 bytes)

 

 

 

 

 

 

"It is hard to conceive of any explanation for the chemical bombardment of Halabja other than the one which
Iranians and Kurds offer - revenge...

"As artillery continues to rumble round the hills, Halabja stands silent and deserted except for what they can
find and a dazed old man, absent during the bombing, who has come back in search of his family..."

 

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See more

On the borders of Kurdistan

On the borders
Where throats are
Choked with good-byes
And eagerness is
Suspended in the eyes
And people asked
When.. where are we ? why..?!

Here a child dies..
There a baby lies, and
Another face-down cries:


        My wound is hurting
        My breath is hurting
        My stomach is hurting,
        Mother: Am I to die ?
        And my white pigeon ?!
        Are we going to die ?

In tears she said:
There beyond the border posts..
Only days: we won't die
For us, God will try..

Again, the child cries:


        Will my pigeon die ?
        Mother: I love her..
        She is my life
        Because I love,
        She does not deserve to die
        I love her...

All broke in tears

        Dear.. your pigeon died
        When the planes pried

And she broke in tears
        My white pigeon was gassed ?!
        My Kurdish pigeon died

        Mother.. my hair is falling
        why ? Am I do die ?

        Some water please..
        W-a-t-e-r ...

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


44 posted on 02/09/2003 5:39:16 PM PST by Rain-maker
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To: dfwgator
I'm farily new to FREE REP, so I hope I'm not out of line posting this. This is the point-by-point reply I sent to Mathews:

Dear Dave,
I realize I’m just a nobody – just some guy who served his country for 24 years and has a son who may soon be in harms way as an Air Force pilot. I’m not a big star so I realize my opinion may not have a lot of pull in certain circles, but I am going to address the concerns in your letter point-by-point:




Dave: I hope this letter finds you all well and that in these uncertain times you find moments to be joyful.

Me: Thanks Dave, I feel the same for you.

Dave: I want to speak my mind about this war with Iraq, or I will choke on my conscience.

Me: I am so grateful that I live in a country where we all can do just that!

Dave: What is the motivation? Regime change? Shouldn't that be up to the people of the region and the people of Iraq?

Me: NO! The motivation is the security of the United States and its citizens. Regime change in this case is simply one of many actions that must be taken to ensure the security of the United States in a war that we did not start! It is a war that is not against any one country, but against a shadowy network of cowards, but also against those countries that we know have and will support this network of terrorists. This network of cowards, and the countries that support them, changed the rules of the game on 9-11. We did not change the rules – they did! But make no mistake, the rules have changed! Your suggestion that the people of Iraq could possibly deal with Saddam reveals a breathtaking ignorance of the facts. This man has an iron fist of fear around the people of Iraq. Anyone who would dare even think about trying to oust him would be killed – along with their families, and they know that!

Dave: The only real threat from Saddam Hussein is to his neighbors and none of them support a U.S. invasion. Is it to stabilize the Middle-East? Wouldn't it only do the opposite by causing further death and suffering in a country that has had more than its share?

Me: Again, this shows a breathtaking ignorance of the facts on your part Dave. You are wrong on both counts. I could list a litany of reasons he is a threat to the entire world, but let’s just focus on one for now. We know for a fact that before the inspectors were kicked out of Iraq the last time, Saddam had in his possession tons of Anthrax and VX nerve agent. We also know that this country’s (US) government was brought to its knees by just a few ounces of this nasty stuff (and it was very refined weapon’s grade anthrax of the sort Saddam had developed). Are you with me so far, Dave? Good. Now, imagine if just a few ounces of Anthrax had such a profound effect on our way of life, what would a few hundred pounds do in the wrong hands? Also, consider the additional fact that Saddam has NOT proven to this latest group of inspectors that he has destroyed any of the tons of Anthrax and VX that we know he had. He has the stuff Dave and that worries the hell out of me! Even if you assume that he’s not buddies with Al Qaeda, can you be certain that some terrorist group will never get their hands on the stuff? You can be certain they are trying and if they do, they will use it against you and me and our families – everyone you love, Dave!

Me: On your second point that none of his neighbors support a U.S. Invasion. Bzzzzzt, wrong!! Kuwait and Qatar to the south, Saudi Arabia to the southwest and Turkey to the north all have expressed support for a US invasion. The Iraq people currently in exile not only support it, but are very enthusiastic about the prospect of unseating Saddam! All of these countries are going to allow US troops to stage out of their respective countries. Oh, and lets not forget Israel! So your contention that none of his neighbors support a US invasion is just wrong.

Dave: Is it to weaken Al Qaeda? Saddam Hussein is a genocidal maniac but he is not Al Qaeda. He is certainly more visible though. Is he our target because he is easier to identify than the illusive terrorist network? Surely it is more likely that an attack on Iraq would only strengthen Al Qaeda by feeding Anti-American sentiment. Putting out the fire with gasoline, so to speak. It is certainly not to liberate the people of Iraq who suffer under Hussein's rule, unless we call killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis liberation.

Me: Oh, good! He’s only a genocidal maniac! I was worried there for a minute! I guess genocide is ok then? I wonder how the survivors of Hitler’s camps would feel about that line of thinking. Oh, and as for feeding Anti-American sentiment, I think 9-11 illustrated that Anti-American sentiment is doing fine on its own. But do you recall what happened when we liberated Afghanistan? Did we see an uprising of Afghani people against the US? I seem to recall that people were dancing in the streets at their new found freedom (except the Taliban who would not even allow women to go to school or hold jobs – I’ll concede that they were not too thrilled). It is true that some innocents will die – war is like that, but I can also assure you that the Americans will do everything in their power to minimize that. Saddam, on the other hand, will think nothing of sending innocents to their slaughter to protect his worthless hide. We will be using precision laser-guided bombs and other tactics and doing all in our power to minimize collateral damage, but some will die. Saddam has gassed his own people – oh, I’m sorry, that’s right I forgot - genocide is ok….

Dave: Saddam Hussein is a barbaric murderous dictator.

Me: Well, we agree on that point!

Dave: I wish the world were free of him.

Me: And a frog wishes he had wings so he wouldn’t bump his (bleep) when he hops, but wishes and good intentions just won’t cut it. Now, if you had proposed some reasonable alternative, I’d be willing to listen, but I really don’t think that wishing him away is what I would call a viable option here.

Dave: But the answer is not to bomb this great culture of Iraq out of existence to stop him. Why must the children of Iraq die by the thousands to stop a tyrant? It is not justice. And if we kill him what will we achieve? We will have taken the most unpopular leader in the Middle East and turned him into the greatest martyr radical Islam has ever had. The U.N. weapons inspectors must be allowed to do their job thoroughly and any military action should be internationally agreed upon. We must not allow our government to turn us into a rogue nation.

Me: Well, I think I already covered most if this in my previous discussion about how Americans are going to try everything in our power to minimize killing innocents. As for the US becoming a rouge nation – what an insult! Oh sure, the nation is marching to war at breakneck speed! Lets see, its been two years since we were attacked on 9-11! The Democrats and liberals wanted a UN resolution – Bush got a resolution. The liberals wanted inspections in Iraq and we got that! And the inspectors have said that Saddam is not fully cooperating. It will be two years from 9-11 before we attack – yep were really rushing in there!

Dave: I fear that our true motivation is about oil and our own flailing economy; about the failure to destroy Al Qaeda and about revenge. It is criminal to put our servicemen and women in harm's way and to put the lives of so many civilians on the line for the misguided frustrations of the Bush administration.

Me: And I fear that your true motivation is that you are simply a liberal (driven by emotion and not reasoned thought) who hates the fact that George W. Bush is President. I don’t recall a lot of liberal outrage when Clinton sent random cruse missiles into Iraq (to what end?), or bombed an aspirin factory (a diversion from his Lewinski affair), or sent troops into Kosovo? We may not have (yet) captured or killed Bin Laden, but we have done significant damage to Al Qaeda – we have a whole bunch of them in prison and we hear of additional captures around the world almost daily! Afghanistan was liberated in short order (and without the huge civilian casualties you’re so worried about). So, I don’t think Bush has anything to feel disappointed about!

Dave: Bottom line: this war is wrong and this war is un-American.

Me: Well, I spent 24 years of my life (with relatively low pay and not always the best working conditions) to protect the rights of people like you to hold whatever opinions they hold. I have a son who is on his way to pilot training and will no doubt be in the middle of any conflict with Iraq. I happen to support the war and understand why it is very necessary. I think I am qualified to hold this opinion without being un-American. I also (and my son agrees) think that you and those who think like you are blithering idiots, but I fully support your right to be a blithering idiot. If that insults you, I don’t really care – your letter is an insult to most Americans (the majority who support action in Iraq).

Dave: Peacefully submitted, Dave Matthews

Me: Stick to music Dave – that doesn’t require critical thinking.

45 posted on 02/09/2003 5:55:55 PM PST by Basil Falwty
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To: WashingtonCollegeofLaw
....making his opinion known.

That is exactly the reason why he is getting a rebuttal to his unethical rethoric. We the consumers are making our opinion known.

So when the train comes for you, better hope some one speaks out or you can fry like the rest of the passifists.

46 posted on 02/09/2003 6:00:01 PM PST by Rain-maker
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To: Basil Falwty
Good point by point dialogue, and it took some effort to do all that.
I hope Matthews lets it sink in and takes it to heart.
 
By the way: Welcome to Free Republic!
     Pull up a chair and have a pint on us.
 

47 posted on 02/09/2003 8:38:04 PM PST by Rain-maker
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To: Rain-maker
Freeped and Bumped.
48 posted on 02/10/2003 5:25:12 AM PST by antienvironmentalist
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To: Malsua
Great reply. I'm so sick of this oil business, I could scream!!!!
49 posted on 02/10/2003 9:32:30 AM PST by Softballmom
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To: Trajan88
"p.s. My #1 favorite song of all time is VH's "Unchained."

Spoken like someone who does know what rock and roll is all about. Though I have to say my favorite VH tune is "Show Your Love".

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

50 posted on 02/10/2003 4:03:27 PM PST by wku man
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To: Rain-maker
Psssst if it was about oil and the current admin. was in fact so cozy with Saddam, why don't we make the end of sanctions and a sweetheart deal with Saddam our goal.

If this is for our economy, why are we so willing to bear the brunt of the costs associated with fighting then rebuilding Iraq?

51 posted on 02/10/2003 4:07:35 PM PST by amused (Creed of the Leftist: "Freedom of speech as long as you are in agreement")
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To: wku man
Yep... I was one of the lucky ones that saw VH's last Diamond Dave-led U.S. show back in summer '84 (Reunion Arena, Dallas).

Of course... I experienced some other sweet shows back in the mid-80's: Rush, Deep Purple, Gary Moore, BTO, Eric Johnson, the Firm, AC/DC, Judas Priest, etc., etc., etc.

Why are my ears ringing? What was that? I can't hear you ;-)

Trajan88; TAMU Class of '88; Law Hall (may it R.I.P.) Ramp 9 Mule; f.u.p.

52 posted on 02/10/2003 8:03:31 PM PST by Trajan88
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