Canadian sniper cleared of desecrating al-Qaeda body

National Post ^ | February 8, 2003 | Stewart Bell

[Dec31,1999]

They shouldn't be wrapped in bacon.

Why not? You for got to tell us why not.

[FairOpinion]

I never will understand people who worry more about the living or dead terrorists, than the lives of our brave soldiers, who as we speak are putting their lives in danger so that we can live in freedom and safety, and so that some can criticize their actions from their comfortable armchairs.

[Cvengr]

Consider the posts and how they're phrased.

The method is endemic of Clinton's method to corrupt his opposition.

Attempt to play one side against the other and then intervene as though a benevolvent moderator.

Note the accusation is made that socialists are accusing the sniper of fabricated charges. Blatently false,...sniper was accused and alleged of criminal behavior.

Next an extreme stance is taken, supposedly patriotic,...patriotic to a point of extremism and lunacy, but very argumentative.

next, just wait for anybody to chime in to correct. Toss in a few expletives,...

Then attack as not being patriotic, lack of experience, yada, yada, yada,

Note also the desire to obtain names and addresses.

Objective: appears to be to foment internal debate and division.

My take...Maybe the same guys who falsely accuse the sniper are the same guys condoning atrocities. They fit the mold.
IMHO, I begin to suspect these may be domestic enemies of the Constitution.

[Dec31,1999]

I predict that you may understand very soon.

[Cvengr]

I agree with you. Same basis for wondering about somebody who might be descerating bodies. But the more I read this, maybe it never happened.

[Burkeman1]

I am not debating that here. There are good arguments both ways (though only from the right- the left arguments against are vapid.) I am only saying that many on this site seem to have let themselves become so blinded that we are reduced to debating whether or not the mutaliation of corpses is OK.

But if I must- simply put I am against "regime change" in Iraq because it will commit the men, resouces, and treasure of this nation to that part of the world for decades to come. I also fear it is but the first war in a series of wars and conflicts that will further deepen our nation in a region of the world that is barbaric. This further involvement will lead to more terrorism on American soil, perhaps even more horrendous than 9/11. It will only drain more treasure and blood from this nation as time goes by. I fear that sticking our head into the vipers nest that is the middle east will only weaken this nation in the long run (and strengthen domestic enemies who hate this nation.)

[Cvengr]

You said the sniper shot he quarry at over a mile away. Plenty of time to leave an unpleasant surprise for somebody playing or poking a dead body.

[Cvengr]

No, I have doubt on the credibility of the good NCO and in this case your credibility is beginning to look rather doubtful as well.

[Cvengr]

Concur with your point regarding future dedication of resources.

I'd keep that as a major objective to avoid.

I still think its in our best interests to change the leadership in Iraq, possibly elsewhere.

[Burkeman1]

Well- a complient Iraq would be nice. But at the cost of occupation and permanent US bases? It was only a few thousand US soldiers in Saudi lands that set off OBL and his AQ fanatics. What will a western run and occupied Iraq do for the recruitment efforts of extremists like AQ?

[weegee]

I've skipped several hundred posts in this thread (my earlier questions to the leading poster to this thread were avoided). Something in your comment leads me to ask:

You said the sniper shot he quarry at over a mile away. Plenty of time to leave an unpleasant surprise for somebody playing or poking a dead body.

Could some "other" thief have desecrated the body by cutting off his finger to get a ring that wouldn't come off? It is not an uncommon tactic.

[PeoplesRepublicOfWashington]

How do you know that enemy solider even knew about 9/11?

For crying out loud! First, this particular enemy was not a soldier. He was an enemy combatant...out of uniform, meat on the hoof with no protection of the Geneva Conventions. I don't give a damn what he knew...he was a barbarian that deserved to die. God bless the Canuck who sent him home to Allah.

[OldCorps]

I went through the entire thread and would like to make a few points.

1) There was insufficient evidence to prosecute Master Corporal Perry. The investigation is over; its done. He behaved cooly in battle and by some accounts saved lives of allied soldiers. He also killed an enemy combatant while acting as a sniper at a distance of over one mile. Once the case cannot be proven, we are obliged to assume his innocence. We owe those who risk their lives in combat the benefit of the doubt. Give him the US Bronze Star--he deserves it.

2) In combat, the most highly prized attributes are courage, loyalty and competence. Mosby, your loyalty to your fellow soldier comes through all these posts-I hope he knows you are defending him, even while approaching the edge of personal attacks, which I think are unnecessary.

3) Having served some time in the US Army during the Clinton administration, I can attest to the endless political correctness; mandatory classes on "consideration of others," equal opportunity and sexual harrassment. It was mind numbing and if you dared speak out and say this is worthless--well, nice knowin ya. Goodbye. By many accounts, the Canadians have the PC fixation even worse than we do. So if I was this guy's company commander and the incident with the chaplain happened as described, I'd tell him to keep his mouth shut and leave it at that. Maybe have a counseling statement (slap on the hand) written just to show something was done. I too am sick of hearing about stress management, blah blah blah. Think about it folks, in Canada there are far fewer trigger pullers than there are professional meddlers. So again, in this case I would give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who actually risks his life, not some ... well you get the idea.

4.) It would have been best for all concerned if this had been resolved without getting into the media. Certainly the Al Quaida will play up the desecration. Some have mentioned that MCpl Perry should not be returned to the theater. Were I his CO I would keep him on my radar screen. A sniper is a very skilled and deadly soldier. This is not just some guy who slung hash in the mess hall. In the US snipers are given psychological tests to ensure they are stable. This incident shows the guy needs to have the attention of his chain of command, IF the desecration and comment to the chaplain are true (which the CO will know).

5.) For those of you who want to cut off limbs and bury dead enemy in pork skins you are way off the mark. Our military is a reflection of our society and our values as a nation. Our nation does not tolerate such behavior where we act like our enemies. We are a more developed society than theirs and subconciously they (those who are knowledgeble about such things) know this. War is the controlled use of violence and, as I posted before, the guys doing the killing are (on both sides) between 15 and 25. They need leadership and an example of how to behave in combat. If the squad leader, platoon sergeant, platoon leader, ISG and company commander do not provide this example and leadership, our army will be reduced to a tribe of murderers and looters, and we as a nation will lose the will to fight and provide moral support to our soldiers which the military so desperately needs.

6.) Furthermore, the army is an institution with a very long memory that looks for precedence. You allow this desecration of body stuff to take place, and you have just allowed it to take place down the line, later during the next war. For the Army, this is not just some quaint little exercise where we go and kick some ass and come home and drink a brewski. No, what we do now will set a precedence for future battles, which we will no doubt have.

7.) In addition to the physical battle taking place, there is the information or propaganda battle. Now I would rather be with the soldiers, as opposed to those who massage the information, but the battle of public opinion is every bit as important as the tactical/operational battle. Look at Vietnam; this war was lost at home. Now if soldiers are allowed to maim dead enemy and take human trophies, how long do you think we will prevail in the battle of public opinion?

A couple of lose ends. I'm a little miffed at all these civilians who have never served a day in uniform tell us how easy it is to go kill these so and so Al Quaida. I wouldn't give full credence to the DOD propaganda about how backward they are. The Afghans in particular are really tough fighters and are not pushovers by any stretch of the imagination. Remember, they whipped the soviet army (with spetsnaz) who probably wern't as constrained about human rights as are we. They are brave and worthy opponents. Remember, the first victim in a war is truth. Don't believe everything you hear or read, especially if it comes from the mass media.

Also, I'm kind of amused about this thread with the Australian guy. I guess not many here remember that the most feared (by the enemy) white soldiers in Vietnam were the Aussies. Lots of stories in the army about the things they did (see paragraph 6). Of course the most feared Oriental soldiers were the South Koreans.

I Apologize for being long winded.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..what is imoral is imoral. I am disgusted by the hypocirscy and double standards many freepers have displayed since the election of Dubya and espicially the 9/11 event...

I understand exactly what you are saying and many others have expressed the same sentiment to me, either via Freepmail or on the Forum. And as we both know hundreds if not thousands of Freepers have departed or been driven out by that factor.

However, it has always been a problem. If you go back four or five years ago you'll remember Rodham and her cohorts used to call us 'Clinton haters.' And a lot of us were, and there was nothing wrong with that. What kind of person doesn't despise the Clintons? But in amongst those who legitimately displayed that contempt, there were some who wanted to display any contempt. There is a certain kind of personality that gets off on an overt display of online hate. A cyber Corporal Perry, if you will. And many of them have been legitimised by 911, in a sick way. It's somehow okay now, to hate Arabs, in their sick minds. Most of them don't give a stuff about the WTC and the people who suffered and died there, excepting for the opportunity it gives to exercise their hate. 'Nuke Mecca!' 'Wrap 'em in pigskin!'

My thoughts are, we should calmly and rationally counter them, wherever possible. I can't speak for the moderators but I don't think they're sympathetic to the haters. A lot of posts have been pulled. And here's JR's thoughts, on right and wrong:

The Democrat Party is thoroughly corrupt. There is no question about that, but it's way beyond corrupt. It's also evil. Waco was evil. The killing of innocent men, women, children and babies is evil. Torturing them for weeks on end, gassing them, and then burning them alive is pure evil. This was perpetrated by a corrupt and evil Democrat Administration and covered-up by corrupt and evil Democrat Congressmen and Senators, many of whom you are saying should be allowed to remain in office even today. And as bad as that is, it pales in comparison to the Democrat government sanctioned and funded wholesale slaughter of the most innocent life of all, the murder of innocent human life in the womb...I love my country. I love the Constitution. I love life. I love God.

I'm in perfect synch with those sentiments and my guess is you three are too. JR doesn't post as much as he used to, which is a bit of a shame, because he was a sort of a moral keel for the place. Anyway, I guess I'm rambling, but the point is it's up to posters like ourselves to confront these haters and sickos and military phonies on the Forum generally, just as we have here. Judging by my Freepmail there are plenty of posters who have had enough of them and would rally to our standard. I take heart from the way the balance steadily shifted on this thread, as calm and authoritative posters joined in and the sickos became shriller and even more hysterical. Let's repeat that elsewhere? All the best, By.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..they shouldn't be wrapped in bacon.

-----------------------------

Why not? You for got to tell us why not....

No, I didn't forget. You didn't ask. Remember?

[albertabound]

Mcpl Perry, hooorah buddy good job proud of you.

[sneakypete]

Military investigators dug up the corpse and searched tents at the Canadian military base, seizing a knife. DNA tests were conducted to see if the knife could be tied to the body, but no link was established.

Well,I guess them doing that is ok. After all,there is nothing important going on,and soldiers don't have anything better to do that dig up bodies.(sarcasm)

[sneakypete]

We always want dead bodies, whether they be enemy or friendly, to be treated with dignity."

Politically Correct HorseHillary is still HorseHillary! Who the hell do these PC clowns think they are fooling? Have they ever seen bodies being bulldozed into a mass grave,or even dug up and lined up for inspection by intelligence officers and surgeons? How much "dignity" is there in that?

Where the hell do thise PC yahoos come from,Sesame Street?

[sneakypete]

Not sure whha you mean about respect for the enemy....

I can't speak for him,but it's important to respect your enemies abilities and courage so that you don't underestimate him. Other than that,your goal as a soldier is to make damn sure the enemy fears you. I think taking a dump on the body of a dead one sends a statement that needs to be sent. This message being that we do NOT respect them as people! They are the enemy,and they are to be killed and disposed of as the trash they are. Let them know that their highest possible value to us is as mobile pop-up targets. THAT is how you intimidate the enemy and win wars,not by playing PC kissy-face with them.

[sneakypete]

How do you know that enemy solider even knew about 9/11?

Why would any of us even care? He was a enemy soldier fighting for a force whose ultimate goal is to destroy our freedoms and enslave us. Kill the SOB where you find him,when you find him.