Air Force imagery confirms Columbia wing damaged

Spaceflightnow.com ^ | 02/07/03 | CRAIG COVAULT

[unspun]

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[DoughtyOne]

You better! ;)

[DoughtyOne]

I missed this comment on the first pass. Interesting.

[DoughtyOne]

Where can we find documentation of that? Not trying to be confrontational, but I'd like this is hand.

[Carry_Okie]

High-resolution images taken from a ground-based Air Force tracking camera in southwestern U.S. show serious structural damage to the inboard leading edge of Columbia's left wing, as the crippled orbiter flew overhead about 60 sec. before the vehicle broke up over Texas killing the seven astronauts on board Feb. 1.

FYI

[NittanyLion]

As I now understand it, the piece of "foam" that peeled off and struck the left wing during the launch phase was the size of a fairly large suitcase and as hard as a brick. Now............does anyone here know what speed the launch vehicle would have attained at 80 seconds into flight? I'm betting.........pretty damned fast. Take something that large and as hard as a brick......slam it into ceramic tiling at that speed..........and you have damage, folks. Severe damage.

You can only take into account the variance in velocities of the shuttle and foam - not the shuttle speed itself. We're more likely talking about a hundred MPH or so...

Also, the foam struck a glancing blow, so less energy would have been absorbed by the impact area.

[isthisnickcool]

Where can we find documentation of that? Not trying to be confrontational, but I'd like this is hand.

I don't have any documentation. But this is what I'm hearing from taggers down the street.

[DoughtyOne]

FYI: I've read reports on the forum based on Dittemore's comments that NASA was assuming a 512 mph impact, but that they were doing this as a result of doubling the estimates in order to make sure tests were run at the optimal rather than the minimal chance for damage. This would indicate they're fairly confident the debris was going at least 256 mph.

[DoughtyOne]

Hey! Taggers down the street???? ;)

[Carry_Okie]

Space is the high ground. We need access on a ho-hum basis. Fly into space, return the same day. Fly into space again. When this happens, the United States will become the Federation. We will inhabit space. We will make sure that a representative Republic rules the high frontier. Commercially, privately, governmentally, militarily, this should be the only acceptable outcome to citizens of the United States.

Mechanically or politically, I just don't think you can get there from here using a socialist system.

[VRWC_minion]

I'm the loan tin foiler. I still think the thing was shot down.

Food for thought: The recorded event of the insulation coming off was the result of someone shooting at the shuttle. Shots damaged both the insulation and the tiles.

[NittanyLion]

FYI: I've read reports on the forum based on Dittemore's comments that NASA was assuming a 512 mph impact, but that they were doing this as a result of doubling the estimates in order to make sure tests were run at the optimal rather than the minimal chance for damage. This would indicate they're fairly confident the debris was going at least 256 mph.

Thanks. Nevertheless, I can't imagine a 260 MPH impact by a 2.5 pound piece of foam - and a glancing one at that - would cause serious damage to the shuttle.

But I'm obviously no expert. The unfortunate thing is, we'll probably never have a clear explanation for this disaster. It will be harder for the program to recover than it will be if they find a definitive cause.

[DoughtyOne]

China is poised to put their first manned mission into space later this year. Right off hand I don't know if that includes a shuttle class vehicle or not. Even if it doesn't, as fast as we give away state secrets, I think we should look at this as a wake-up call.

[hopespringseternal]

One of the astronauts apparently sent some sort of message during the mission that they were concerned about possible damage and had tried to take pictures out the orbiter window. Of course, there was no way to check underneath the wing or the wing root.

[Capitalist Eric]

You can only take into account the variance in velocities of the shuttle and foam - not the shuttle speed itself. We're more likely talking about a hundred MPH or so...

Sorry, but you're wrong.

The foam possesses a low relative density, therefore having a very high surface area compared to weight. The laminar boundary layer- the "layer" of air right on the skin of the tank, which tends to move slowly, is a very thin layer- in this case, with the speeds we're discussing (~1,900 MPH was the last NASA estimate I heard about Shuttle speed at time of foam separation), it was probably a few molecules thick. So, as soon as the insulation broke loose, it was immediately decelerating. Considering the high surface area to mass ratio, the delta-V would have been very high... Imagine following a garbage truck driving down the highway at 60MPH, and a piece of styrofoam flies up out of the front of the garbage bin... By the time It's a few feet above the truck (and out of the turbulent air from the truck) it's ground speed is zero. I've watched this, before... What you see from the side, is that the foam pops straight up, is stopped in place by the wind, and the truck rolls out from under the foam...

At 1,900 MPH, and a distance of what... 50-75 feet???

Oh, yeah, there was a significant difference in speeds, by the time the foam hit the wing...

If the foam happened to be relatively hard, then regardless of whether it was a direct blow or a glancing blow, it is likely that tile damage would result...

CE

[DoughtyOne]

I think your comments are as reasonable or more so than those who think the insulation did create the fatal damage. The only thing going in their direction, and I've actually argued the possiblity of their arguement, is the seeming failure of the left wing. Some people like you are saying the insulation/failure theorists are missing something, and that may be true. I think it's possbile the detractors of the insulation/failure theorists may be missing something as well.

I'm not convinced either camp is correct at this point. I do think both options are definately still on the table.

[null and void]

I'm not convinced either camp is correct at this point. I do think both options are definately still on the table.

'prolly end up being something else entirely...

[DoughtyOne]

It might. My job is to... well what is my job. ;) You take care.

[kjam22]

Sorry, but you're wrong. The foam possesses a low relative density, therefore having a very high surface area compared to weight. The laminar boundary layer- the "layer" of air right on the skin of the tank, which tends to move slowly, is a very thin layer- in this case, with the speeds we're discussing (~1,900 MPH was the last NASA estimate I heard about Shuttle speed at time of foam separation), it was probably a few molecules thick. So, as soon as the insulation broke loose, it was immediately decelerating. Considering the high surface area to mass ratio, the delta-V would have been very high... Imagine following a garbage truck driving down the highway at 60MPH, and a piece of styrofoam flies up out of the front of the garbage bin... By the time It's a few feet above the truck (and out of the turbulent air from the truck) it's ground speed is zero. I've watched this, before... What you see from the side, is that the foam pops straight up, is stopped in place by the wind, and the truck rolls out from under the foam... At 1,900 MPH, and a distance of what... 50-75 feet??? Oh, yeah, there was a significant difference in speeds, by the time the foam hit the wing... If the foam happened to be relatively hard, then regardless of whether it was a direct blow or a glancing blow, it is likely that tile damage would result... CE

This would be funny if you weren't serious. It would be interesting to know what speed you call "significant". Say the difference in speed between the shuttle and the foam were 200 miles per hour. That calculates to 293 feet per second. So it makes the 50 foot trip from break off point to the shuttle in 1/6th of a second. Is that what the video showed?