Columbia's Problems Began on Left Wing

NYT.com ^

[KickRightRudder]

Skynews website has a British scientist quoted as saying that NASA knew this ending was going to happen after finding out about the damaged tile, but couldn't do a damn thing about it. In other words, it was a sealed fate once the tile was hit upon liftoff. Guy seemed pretty sure of himself.

[OReilly]

Uncertain, apparently this shuttle was too heavy to dock with the space station....

If the alternative was this, they may have figured out how to lighten the load... no?

[Clara Lou]

No it doesn't.
Yes, it does. Columbia's Problems Began on Left Wing. That's a statement of fact which has yet to be proven.

[The Great Satan]

That's not what you said. Reread your post. It's a perfectly reasonable headline.

[OReilly]

What you say, is not all that surprising to me, have studied the case study of the 'Challenger Group Think' problem...

By the way your name reminds me of a situation in Rime Ice in the Clouds in SLC, when the pilot (sitting beside me) gave up, and I found out that planes really do make that funny rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhh sound as them almost wind in.

[John Jamieson]

Space flight is very dangerous and the astros know it. I've been in several meeting where the Astro said GO and engineers said stop. Even the nontest pilots have the test pilot mentality. We wouldn't have a manned space program without them.

It's a terrible fact, but more people are killed driving to space jobs than die in space.

[Swordmaker]

It would seem a member of the crew could have been tethered and taken a look at the damage. If the call was made that it was unsafe, why not dock with the space station, and send down as many people as possible with the ISS rescue pod? Sure it leaves no failsafe for whoever is left behind, but it gives more chance for survival. Hopefully, those left of the ISS would have enough life support to last until another shuttle rescues them, or some other rockets are sent to take them home.

Docking with the International Space Station was out of the question. There is not enough fuel in the Orbital Manuvering Units to change the orbit that much. Docking with the ISS requires a launch with that intent.

The ISS should have sufficient rescue pods for an entire shuttle crew, and the ISS crew.

They should have sufficient "life boat" capacity for the anticipated crew load including shift change... or they will suffer from the "Titanic Syndrone." Escape pods for the Shuttles was considered and rejected for reasons of cost and payload capacity: If they were included in the design, the system would not have worked.

[csvset]

You'd think the first order of business once in orbit would be to check for damage.

I concur. I think that the lack of a walk around or a request for pictures to see if there was damage borders on negligence.

They knew that the shuttle had been impacted, yet failed to take a look see. That is inexcusible, imo.

[paul51]

they usually do NOT examine the craft during spacewalks

Maybe should reconsider this policy. I don't know all the technical requirements or even if possible, but it may have helped detect damage to exterior.

[CROSSHIGHWAYMAN]

OK. so devise a repair kit that moulds epoxy-ablative material over the missing tile space. If aerodynamically necessary, mould a dummy ablative patch on the other wing.

If each tile is a custom size and shape, replacements could be a mosaic of smaller pieces which could be fitted into many different sizes.

Considering the cost of a shuttle and the incalculable value of it's crew, a repair kit seems like small potatoes.

[John Jamieson]

The original designs also had jet engines to fly home!

[SarahW]

I'm saying there should have been a method for repairing damaged tiles in critical areas.

I don't care whether its a heat resistant patch or foam or a tile carving kit.

If this is the best they can do (cross fingers and pray) I think a re-design is in order.

[Monitor]

Good idea, but impractical. I had a friend in the USAF who worked Shuttle Ops. Tiles differ in size, shape, and thickness, depending on where they're placed. Mounting a replacement tile is a multi-week iteration. And in any case, the shuttle lacked EVA suits sufficient to even TRY such repairs. . .

The engineer in me has been thinking about this all day. A small autonomous robot that, on every mission, is dispatched from the shuttle to inspect the tiles, most important tiles first.

As for repairing/replacing a damaged or missing tile - and I have to say I'm ignorant of how these tiles are manufactured - either a small on-board CNC machine that could machine a temporary tile from stock material to fit, or a heat-resistant epoxy-like material that can be applied. Neither solution need be permanent, only requiring they can withstand a single reentry.

[Clara Lou]

If you feel like splitting hairs this evening, go right ahead. I find the title typically misleading, a regular occurance with the NYT. Have it your way, though.

[John Jamieson]

Tile is only one of 100,000 possibilities.

[Swordmaker]

John,

My recollection is that the original mission plans for the STS program was that the original fleet was to fly for about 15 years before the next generation STS came on line.

Am I remembering correctly?

[CharacterCounts]

They knew that the shuttle had been impacted, yet failed to take a look see. That is inexcusible, imo

According to what I heard on Fox News, this is not a rare event. It has happend nine times before without incident.

[John Jamieson]

Tiles must fired after CNC. It is a very difficult job to get them right, even on the ground. We can probably make better tiles now, 20 years later, but the fleet would be down for several years. It probably will be anyway. Challenger took 32 months for return to flight.

[Swordmaker]

I heard this shuttle returned with the heaviest payload ever. It happened at a critical time. I suppose even a small thing gone wrong, at that time, could be fatal.

Was this because they did not launch any satelites and brought back down everything taken up except fuel and other disposables?

[OReilly]

According to what I heard on Fox News, this is not a rare event. It has happened nine times before without incident.

Sounds like the 'Group think of Challenger'