**US MAY USE TATICAL NUKES IN IRAQ**

LA Times and Times of India ^ | January 25, 2003 | William Arkin

[ewing]

The United States is quietly preparing for the use of tatical nuclear weapons in a war against Iraq and military planners have been actively studying lists of potential targets, the media reported Saturday.

The preparations include possible use of so called 'bunker buster' nuclear weapons against deeply buried military targets the Los Angeles Times reported on Saturday morning quoting William M. Arkin.

Defence officials have been focusing their plans on the use of tatical nuclear arms in retaliation for a strike by the Iraqis with chemical or biological weapons, or to preempt one, the daily said.

US Administration officials believe that in some circumstances, using nuclear arms may be the only way to destory deeply buried targets that may contain unconventional weapons, the report said.

Some officials have argued that the blast and radiation of effect of such strikes would be limited.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...Does This Ring A Bell?....

Yes, it rings a bell, but are you trying to use 911 as justification for nuking Iraq?

If 'yes', it's game, set and match to Osama.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..it seems the history of mandkind is filled with madmen that bring about horror that it is unconceivable...

Lemme tell you something, TD.

If the US uses nukes in Iraq it'll be George Bush who'll fit that description. But I'm not going to the mattresses over this one because I don't think any US seviceman would carry out the order to push the button. Whoever did that would bring a stain upon his name such as would make a 'Hitler' or a 'McVeigh' seem positively sunny. So let the absurdly-named Happy2BeMe have his mega-death fantasies, because it's not gonna happen.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...any U.S. President that orders it will be politically dead...if not impeached....

Forget 'impeached'.

He'd have to be replaced mid-sentence, like Captain Queeg.

[DBrow]

Byron, the crews that dropped the two bombs on Japan were not vilified and
made some income on the lecture circuit. The president who gave the orders (which you will observe were obeyed) was not impeached nor buried in an unmarked grave somewhere.

If the order came down to drop a W51 or B61-11, the crews would load it and the tower would give permission to take off. That's what the military does.

[Happy2BMe]

" don't think any US seviceman would carry out the order to push the button."

We're not aussies over here - shut your dirty trap.

BTW: We follow orders.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..it makes us look bad, but that's the media for ya: they have a clear agenda, and it is even more pronounced from the countries that hate us....

Exactly, Norm. And aren't they getting maximum opportunity, at the moment? It can't be good for our side when millions of Times Of India readers are having either their fears aroused or their anti-US prejudices reinforced in this way. Fleischer should rebut this nuke nonsense immediately. Trouble is, this kind of chest-beating is a silly tactic they've signed up for, trying to give the impression that GWB is so determined and so fierce he might do ANYTHING to dislodge Saddam. It's amateur hour stuff and it does us more harm than good.

[HardStarboard]

>>>It's my understanding that "bunker busters" are not nuclear weapons. <<<

Your understanding is incomplete. Non-nuclear bunker busters are of two types - deep penetration blast types, and daisy cutter types - suck all the oxygen out and atmospheric overpressure shock wave types.

Tactical nukes are a fine substitute - and are more effective in both the "dig 'em out" and "suck 'em out - blow 'em out" modes. In addition the nukes have some beneficial electrical effects that disable nearby electronic equipment that helps destroy the enemy's ability to communicate.

I am not a weapons expert - but read a bunch on the topic. Any corrections - additions are encouraged.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...Byron, the crews that dropped the two bombs on Japan were not vilified and made some income on the lecture circuit....

Irrelevant, amigo.

You can't compare a deadly enemy like Japan who attacked the US first with a punching bag pushover like Iraq.

[metesky]

You're the fifth person that's told me that...

My education is complete.
:O)

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...BTW: We follow orders....

Uh huh.

I hope for the pilots' sake that that excuse works better than it did at Nuremburg.

[NeilSmith]

I'm not a weapons expert but I believe that a daisy cutter is nothing like a nuke. Nuclear devices have a long term effect on the environment.

[Cvengr]

My read of this story is far more reaching.

No flag ranked officer or exec service member would flippantly comment about using nukes unless there was very good reason,....politically it simply terminates their career mid-stream.

IMHO, this implies intelligence community is convinced WMD attacks will occur somewhere in the Western world in short order, and these statements are merely political posturing so that when we are cornered to retaliate, the field commanders are afforded the opportunity to strike without being muzzled.

Considering Japan's recent comments regarding pre-emptive capacity against North Korea, I suspect there must be very real, strong evidence to an impending enemy attack. That evidence wouldn't be revealed, but incidental reaction would read as we are witnessing.

In layman's terms, if you drive down a county road and witness 50 policemen suiting up in body armor, riot gear, forming assault lines and laying cones in the road, it's probably in response to something more threatening than simply a vehicle safety inspection or a speed trap by a county Smokey.

[ozone1]

The smaller nukes in the bunker busters go deep enough and will cause enough damage that the radiation leakage will be minor and short lived. The explosion will be covered by several hundred feet of dirt. We will never know that they were even used.

[Happy2BMe]

"I'm not a weapons expert but I believe that a daisy cutter is nothing like a nuke."

True. The DC was developed to clear heavy foilage and trees instantly in areas about the size of a football field for landing zones in the heavy jungles of Viet Nam.

It was used several times in Afghanistan against deep tunnels and is effective for that because it's blast is so huge it removes all the oxygen in it's blast zone - suffocating anyone not directly killed by the blast.

The DC is not considered as effective on deep targets as the Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) which comes in several configuations and is deployable by either conventional or unmanned (cruise missles) aircraft.

Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) GBU-29, GBU-30, GBU-31, GBU-32

But anyone ruling out the use of nukes on Iraq (in retaliation for WMD) is a blind fool.

[Almondjoy]

I'm just trying to figure out if you were trying to be funny.. because if you were.. then you got me.

[Almondjoy]

Is that when it started?? Could of fooled me..

[Centurion2000]

Is that when it started?? Could of fooled me..

Hmm ... guess the Taliban didn't count ?

[Rain-maker]

Yes, it rings a bell, but are you trying to use 911 as justification for nuking Iraq?

If 'yes', it's game, set and match to Osama.

So I presume your thinking dialogue is a solution. If yes, the islamic buzzards will be picking your defeatist corpse.

We didn't bendover after Pearl Harbor, and we won't bend over now!

[putupon]

I'm not for nuking anyone, unless it's necessary. Except maybe France.

[Happy2BMe]

Perhaps the aussie has converted to Islam?

It has gained hold on many weak aussie minds.

Wonder if he considers President Bush a "redneck?"

Aussie muslims claim Bush is a blood and oil-lusting REDNECK