Ranking the presidents

BSNN ^ | 01.21.03 | By John Flaherty

[WaveThatFlag]

The Kidd has it right. Bush 41' does not deserve to be on the worst list. His conduct on the war was superb - our forces put the world on notice that we were back. If you remember at the time the same yahoos who were talking about "quagmire" and "another Vietnam" were talking about the Persian Gulf War. It is not Bush's fault we stopped going to Baghdad, but rather the liberals, arabs, and their foolish UN policies.

This is not the first time this dimwit has tried to paint this picture. Unfortunately for him, he has nothing to back up his accusation. The guy gives Kennedy an honorable mention for Pete's sake. How seriously can you take him?

[meandog]

...could not disagree more, Bush I was a failed president primarily because of one individual: Sadamm Husein!

[meandog]

BTW, most of your top ten became "great" by taking us to war. Is there a pattern here?

Nope, most of them were great by being great: The most recent example--Ronald Maximus Reagan!

[meandog]

Clinton's name should NEVER be included on any list of BEST PRESIDENTS....NEVER,NEVER!!

Except on some liberal list (such as Time/CNN--which will change over the course of history) he's not!

[meandog]

Harding in the bottom dozen?! Poor Warren can't get no respect! He slashed taxes and spending, reduced inflation, and preceded over a vigorous post-war economic recovery. He dared to speak out for civil rights in the South in contrast to the segregationist Woodrow Wilson. His administration gave us the Washington Naval Treaty, which brought sweeping multi-lateral arms reductions.

Warren G., IMHO, was the "Clinton" of the 1920s. A total immoral failure!

[meandog]

FDR above Reagan? Heresy, especially on a site like this (one would think). Personally, I don't really have a problem with him being in the top ten given his role in bringing us into the War, but his complete disregard for basic constitutional principles and desire to be "President for Life" move him way down the list in my opinion. He's the reason why we had to pass the term-limit amendment to the constitution.

FDR deserves recognition mainly because his handling of the Great Depression and WWII,

[meandog]

Hmmmm... That's a tough question. I recall the debate at the recent turn of the century regarding who was the "Man of the Century" (by Time Magazine standards). I remember thinking at the time that Hitler without question had the most dramatic impact on the course of history - indeed, one of the most dramatic for the entire millennium. The problem with the term "great" is that it not only connotes magnitude but also connotes excellence. As such, one must balance the magnitude of the individual with the excellence of his endeavors. Hitler fails on the latter score, not the former..

Albert Einstein was Time's Man of the Century.

[meandog]

Any list that has "Cool Cal" in the BOTTOM 10 isn't worth perusing. When was the last time a President vetoed a bill and sent it back with the message "I find no authority under the Constitution for the federal government to undertake that which is outlined in this bill"?

AKA "Silent Cal". BTW, he holds the record for the least amount of vetoes...he was also often referred to as "Old Rubber Stamp"!

[Destructor]

"Also, I suspect that once the 1960s generation fades into history and the last 50 years can be viewed objectively, JFK will start showing up on lists of the worst presidents in U.S. history. If you go back and look at the three years he was in office, they are remarkable only because almost nothing of note was accomplished during that period."

JFK did lower taxes to jump start the economy, and he was the driving force behind the "space race" to beat the Sovs to the moon. Aside from those two things I agree with you.

[bvw]

"Impact on the course of History"

That any measure can be of this is not only fantasy, it is a form of idolatry. The best measures are honesty, courage, bold righteous leadership and kindness.

Washington, Cleveland, Lincoln, Jackson, Polk, T. Roosevelt, Coolige, Truman, Jefferson, Monroe, Van Buren ... good Presidents.

I too am bothered by the Noriega action and wonder what role the Chinese had in it -- after all they do have the canal, don't they.

[KC_Conspirator]

I disagree. Klinton did not run on "Its the foreign policy, stupid" and Bush I only lost because of one man - Ross Perot. The problems we are facing today with Saddam have to do with liberals in the State Department and the UN. Our tanks were 100 miles from Baghdad with nothing in between them but small desert lizards and a couple of village goats. But the UN signed the cease fire which ended hostilities. Know the modern history. Go back and look at the hypocritical Madelaine Albright's of 1991 who were screaming on TV not to invade Iraq, but years later blamed their failures on Bush I for not invading Iraq.

[WaveThatFlag]

JFK did lower taxes to jump start the economy, and he was the driving force behind the "space race" to beat the Sovs to the moon. Aside from those two things I agree with you.

The liberals have gotten to you! They look at Kennedy's lack of accomplishments and try to bestow the "space race" on him to make up for it. American scientists had been competing with the Soviets for a decade before NASA was established in 1958 (3 years before Kennedy took office). Pioneer I was launched later that year in response to the Soviet Sputnik I. On average the were more (ad more complicated) launches during the Johnson and Nixon Administrations than during Kennedy's. He did not get around to making his "We choose to go to the moon" speech until he had been in office for three months. "driving force behind the 'space race'?" Baloney.

[Austin Willard Wright]

Well...Warren fooled around but then did some of your "greats."

Even here, the last historiography indicates that this "immorality" is highly exaggerated. For example, the famous Nan Britton story about the illegimate child was probably a complete fraud.

So what is your evidence that he was a "total" moral failure? That he played poker in the White House? So did Harry Truman.

Harding, unlike Clinton, was a modest man who (whatever his mistakes) meant well and did not lust after power for power's sake. Comparing him to Clinton (a serious charge!) is totally unfair, especially since you have not provided evidence for this charge.

[arthurus]

In my view, the ten greatest presidents list is not congruent with the ten best presidents. FDR was certainly one of the greatest presidents but surely not one of the best. Ditto Lincoln. The great presidents are tho ones who had the most power and largest effect on history .

The best were the ones who governened the best. I would put Coolidge on the best list even given the tarriffs that he inherited because of his true laissez fair attitude toward buiness and the resulting prosperity. I would put Hoover on the worst list because of his support for Smoot-Hawley that crippled world trade for a generation and was a major contributor to the great depression.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

Not worth quibbling over the little stuff (FDR vs. Reagan, though I'd personally rank FDR far lower).

From the worst list, I'd take off 41 -- that sounds too much like a personal vendetta on the writer's part. Coolidge sounds like a similar, smaller grudge to me.

I'd also take off Ford. He didn't do much, granted, but I think the pardon of Nixon ended something that would have hurt the American psyche so much that Carter's malaise would've been cock-eyed optimism in comparison. Ford sacrificed his political career for the good of the country when he pardoned Nixon -- and still managed to almost get re-elected.

My top Three:

1. Washington. Established the Presidency
2. Reagan. Re-established the nation's strength. Essentially won the Cold War without too much baggage being left over.
3. Truman. Made the hard decisions to drop the bomb; then to stand up to communism.

Lincoln and FDR have too much baggage for me to put in my top three. Honorable mention to John Tyler, for no other reason than he's one of my wife's ancestors. Well, he did establish that a President who comes to power, through the VP position, has all the powers of the Presidency; I suspect there could have been some major and destructive power-struggles when later Presidents died, if that had not been established.

My Worst 3:

1. Carter. Let America be kicked, then said, "Please, sir, may I have another."
2. Buchanan. I think this article states it well enough.
3. JFK. Whether or not Eisenhower planned it, with the Bay of Pigs, JFK started the American "tradition" of half-a'ing military actions. Either do what it takes or don't do it at all. Every President since then has done the same -- even Reagan ducked on Lebanon. I'm hoping that 43 breaks the tradition, but we've yet to see, one way or another.

Clinton was a morally corrupt, possibly even murderous, President. However, once the Health Care plan collapsed, he was content to do what it took to stay alive politically. His Presidency was sickening, but not, life-threatening to the nation, as I think Carter, Buchanan, and JFK's were.

[ZULU]

My top choices, in order:

1. George Washington - without him we wouldn't have an independent country and a free republic.

2. Thomas Jefferson - ditto

3. Teddy Roosevelt - read his biography. A great American bigger than life.

4. Ronald Reagan - Destroyed the "Evil Empire' and changed our view of government

5. Adams - another prime architect of our Republic

6. Polk - won the first war with Mexico (the Second one is down the road somewhere).


7. Monroe - Monroe doctrine



The Bottom of the Barrel. These were all so bad, I can't even rank them in any order:

Bill Clinton

Franklin Roosevelt

U.S. Grant

Warren G. Harding

Woodrow Wilson

Abraham Lincoln

Richard M. Nixon

Jimmy Carter

Lyndon Johnson

George Bush I

Gerald Ford

[meandog]

I disagree. Klinton did not run on "Its the foreign policy, stupid" and Bush I only lost because of one man - Ross Perot. The problems we are facing today with Saddam have to do with liberals in the State Department and the UN. Our tanks were 100 miles from Baghdad with nothing in between them but small desert lizards and a couple of village goats. But the UN signed the cease fire which ended hostilities. Know the modern history. Go back and look at the hypocritical Madelaine Albright's of 1991 who were screaming on TV not to invade Iraq, but years later blamed their failures on Bush I for not invading Iraq.

You might want to check into tapes from both History and Discovery Channels (both extremely fair and balanced)...Bush I, as you pointed out, had the opportunity to continue on to Baghdad yet, primarily because of concerns about carnage on "Highway of Death" (not the U.N.) chose to halt our troops. The Republican Guard were allowed to escape almost completely intact with their equipment which was later used on Kurdish and Shitte uprisings while U.S. sat idly by...it was, IMHO, a blunder of tremendous proportions. Bush I operatives later tried to blame Gen. Powell (the man Bush II chose as his Secretary of State) for the stoppage of the war. But Bush I was CIC and, as Truman points out, the buck stops there!

[Austin Willard Wright]

How did FDR "handle" the depression? The country was still mired in Depression on the eve of World War II!, more than ten years later. Previous depression (such as the short but sharp decline under Harding) were over in one to three years in great part because earlier presidents pursued less statist policies. If that's your example of success, I'd like to see your example of failure.

[meandog]

Well...Warren fooled around but then did some of your "greats." Even here, the last historiography indicates that this "immorality" is highly exaggerated. For example, the famous Nan Britton story about the illegimate child was probably a complete fraud. So what is your evidence that he was a "total" moral failure? That he played poker in the White House? So did Harry Truman.

It wasn't only his dallience in White House closets with female visitors, or the Teapot Dome scandal in the Interior Dept. There were numerous illegalities in the Justice and Veterans Bureaus. As well, he constantly strattled Wilson's League question.