Ranking the presidents

BSNN ^ | 01.21.03 | By John Flaherty

[meandog]

Truman gets on the list mainly because of his guts. The man was hated while in office by both Dems and Repubs, but he was grounded in unimpeachable morals (ever faithful to wife, Bess, unlike the bevy of Democrats (xcpt Carter) who followed him)...he integrated the armed forces, fired the "American Ceasar," fought with a Democratic Congress...'bout the only knock against him was he was a bit soft on the poliferation of Commies invading the government, Hollywood and the media of the time.

[Austin Willard Wright]

How did he bring us into war? He did it by "disregarding Constitutional principles." You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[AntiGuv]

FWIW, I rank presidential "greatness" by their impact on the course of history, not by how personally admirable or ideologically agreeable I would consider them.

[AntiGuv]

See #23.

[Austin Willard Wright]

Impact on history? By that standard, would you rank Hitler as the "greatest" leader of Germany since he had the greatest "impact?"

[AntiGuv]

Hmmmm... That's a tough question. I recall the debate at the recent turn of the century regarding who was the "Man of the Century" (by Time Magazine standards). I remember thinking at the time that Hitler without question had the most dramatic impact on the course of history - indeed, one of the most dramatic for the entire millennium. The problem with the term "great" is that it not only connotes magnitude but also connotes excellence. As such, one must balance the magnitude of the individual with the excellence of his endeavors. Hitler fails on the latter score, not the former..

[jdege]

The best President in our history was, without a doubt, William Henry Harrison.

Remember: "That government which governs best governs least."

William Henry Harrison did the least:

William H. Harrison

On March 4, 1841, in one of the longest inaugural addresses ever delivered, Harrison promised not to run for a second term--a promise that proved to be unnecessary. Harassed and fatigued by the demands of office seekers, he accomplished little during his one month in the presidency. Having contracted pneumonia in late March, he died in Washington, D.C., on April 4, 1841.

[John R. (Bob) Locke]

Any list that has "Cool Cal" in the BOTTOM 10 isn't worth perusing.

When was the last time a President vetoed a bill and sent it back with the message "I find no authority under the Constitution for the federal government to undertake that which is outlined in this bill"?

[mywholebodyisaweapon]

Truman virtually created Israel (no blasphemy intended). But he didn't nuke Stalin and Mao when he had the chance.

[arthurus]

He established the efficacy fo cutting tax rates for prosperity and growth.

[Austin Willard Wright]

Well....I don't know. When I say that somebody is a "great guy" I am not primarily talking about his impact on society but on whether I think he has admirable values, goals, and abilities.

[azcap]

The author ranks Reagan and FDR on the the premise that Fascism/Nazism/Japanese Militarism was the greatest evil of history and Communism was the second greatest evil. I think he has his evils backwards. Fascism was no doubt an evil of tremendous measure but you have to consider that those outside of the fascist countries mostly saw it for the evil it was. Fascism required the force of arms to spread beyond the Axis. Communism on the other hand spawned a hundred marxist movements and sentiments that gave the world socialism, the modern statist Europe, green environmentalism and the modern US Democratic party. Fascism is dead. Communism has evolved and prospered.

[AntiGuv]

That's perfectly fair, IMO. I'm simply trying to justify my own view on the matter. It's all a value judgment, when it comes right down to it, and the ambiguous term "great" does not help in this respect. Value judgments are perfectly fine and necessary, but I also try and view history through the most objective possible lens, apart from my valuation of events. If I were to consider the best presidents, they would no doubt rank differently than the greatest presidents.

[Alberta's Child]

Regardless of the Bush-Noriega fantasy, I would point out that the U.S. invasion of Panama was one of the most disgraceful episodes in recent memory.

At least Milosevic wasn't brought here to stand trial.

[Alberta's Child]

Good point. But most of the "accomplishments" that are assigned to JFK were passed after he was assassinated.

And I suspect that most of them were utter bullsh!t anyway, and the phrase "JFK would have wanted this" was just use to ensure their smooth sailing through Congress.

[rustbucket]

I can give you a partial set -- I'm not expert enough at history to place them all.

1. Washington. Walking away from power when he had it.
2. Jefferson. Louisiana Purchase. DOI (pre-president but indicates the greatness of the man).
3. Teddy Roosevelt. Bully for him. I'm still benefiting from his national parks.
Top 10. Reagan. Man of vision, could inspire and communicate.
Top 10. Truman. Much as I dislike his petty Democrat policies, he had the guts to make some tough decisions.

Generally high. Lincoln. I've mixed feelings about him. He ran rough shod over the Constitution (e.g., Ex Parte Merryman); terrible treatment of some Confederate prisoners; sacrificed Union prisoners by refusing to honor prisoner exchange. On the other hand, one could argue that Lincoln did what he thought he had to do to win the war. Had he lived, he would have kept Reconstruction from getting as onerous as it did. This last thought is what gives him a high rating in my opinion.

Low ranking. JFK. He is way overrated. Jawboned businessmen as being evil; used his brother as Attorney General; Bay of Pigs. Only good thing he did was stand up to Russia over the Cuban missles.
Low ranking. LBJ. Lied to Congress over Tonkin Gulf.
Low ranking. FDR. Moved the country way to the left though he had campaigned otherwise. Tried to pack the Supreme Court by increasing the number of justices to 15. War effort OK.

Bottom 10. Ford. Shouldn't have pardoned Nixon.
39. Nixon. Good foreign policy but paranoid personality.
40. Grant. Scandal ridden.
41. Carter. Totally inept. Inflation soared, hostages held, Panama Canal given away.
42. Clinton. Chinese scandal; pardons; FBI files; Hillarycare; you name it. (Hillary would be reason enough.)

[Non-Sequitur]

Fascism is dead.

I think that I have to agree with the author on this. Communism, while a threat, would have fallen of its own accord in time. The complete bankruptcy of every communist economy is an indication of that. Facism, on the other hand, might have continued to grow and would have been a much greater threat to the world if Hitler hadn't committed national suicide by starting the second world war.

[WaveThatFlag]

John F. Kennedy: JFK was a womanizer, an elitist, and a political slickster who's administration double-dealed, held mortal grudges, and practiced the politics of personal vendetta. The Bay of Pigs was a fiasco, his personal war against Castro was illegal (and would eventually play a part in his assassination), and he accelerated Vietnam. Having said all that (which is why he is not in the Top Ten) He was also, if hypocritically so, deeply committed to Civil Rights advancement. His brinkmanship with Russia nearly ended the world - but did not - and for that he must be given great credit. He was the most fiscally conservative Democrat in the 20th Century and his vision for America and our role in the world (The Apollo Moon Missions, The Peace Corps, The international succoring of liberty) where both real and genuinely stirring.

Still haven't been able to kick that crack habit, I see. The man served less than 3 years and he left the world worse off than he found it. "Nearly end[ing] the world" is not an accomplishment, and the Apollo Moon missions started 4 years after Kennedy's death. Kennedy's contribution to the Space Race consisted of pointing out that the Soviets were beating us. You are going to have to give a specific example of "international succoring of liberty," and contrary to your assertion, Kennedy's civil rights record was undistinguished, given the perspective of the time. His predecessor sent troops to Little Rock to integrate the schools there. This leaves us with the Peace Corps. I will conceed that Kennedy did establish the Peace Corps. What that signifies, I am not exactly sure of, but it certainly does not merit a ranking in the top 50% of US presidents.

[AntiGuv]

I should also note that I don't think Kennedy should stand anywhere near the top 10 list, but I didn't bother to consider the 'honorable mentions'...

[KC_Conspirator]

I disagree completely with Bush (41) on the "worst" list. He shouldn't be on either list. The reasons given are bogus. No mention that he continued the successful policies of Reagan and conducted the "cleanest" war in American history. Bush's (41) biggest drawbacks are his complete inaction on abortion and his lie about no tax increases.

The Kidd has it right. Bush 41' does not deserve to be on the worst list. His conduct on the war was superb - our forces put the world on notice that we were back. If you remember at the time the same yahoos who were talking about "quagmire" and "another Vietnam" were talking about the Persian Gulf War. It is not Bush's fault we stopped going to Baghdad, but rather the liberals, arabs, and their foolish UN policies.