Liberals, Lawyers and Taxes

gogov ^ | December 28, 2002 | Russell Betts

[BJungNan]

A liberal friend recently took up defense of trial lawyers. No, he is not a trial lawyer lobbyist or a Democrat politician in the pocket of the Trial Lawyers Association. He was responding to an article that appeared in SFGate.com, The case against trial lawyers View from the right.

His view from the left is this, "Trial lawyers are capitalists. They are using the current system to their best possible lawful advantage, just like any person in business would." He summed up his defense by asking, "Are corporations 'greedy' when they use every possible legal loophole to avoid paying as much taxes as they can?"

Forgetting his oblivion to morality and that everyone does not operate at the uttermost fringes of legality, that for many there is a controlling moral authority even if the law proscribes none, there is a larger problem with his question. Like so many liberals blinded by their indoctrinated hate of business, my friend never stops to realize that companies don't pay taxes they only collect them. Only people pay taxes, either directly to the government or reflected in the cost of goods and services they buy - and passed on to them by companies.

You might think a liberal who so vilifies corporations would be smart enough to realize that those "big bad companies" are not so benevolent as to simply eat those taxes without passing them on in the cost of goods or services they "shamelessly" sell to us.

Did a young liberal I met some years ago that had a bumper sticker on the back of his motorcycle that read "Raise Corporate Taxes" ever realize that his motorcycle cost him more because of those corporate taxes he likes, that they were added in to its sell price? After our short debate, he left looking perplexed in the face of a new reality but I'm still not sure it sunk in.

But back to lawyers and my friend. At least with taxes paid directly or collected by corporations we get something. Not much, but something.

Lawyers, lawsuits and fear of lawsuits on the other hand, drive up costs with very little benefit. Twenty dollars of the cost of a $120 ladder is directly attributable to legal fees (source, R. J. Werner Company). Very little of that goes to bringing about a safer ladder unless one would suggest that every frivolous ladder lawsuit has led to improved ladder safety.

My liberal friend is correct that all lawyers are unjustly taking the full brunt of what is wrong with the trial law system - there are good lawyers and others share the blame. But there are plenty of examples where the scorn felt for lawyers is directly justified. They are not all just innocent capitalist operating at the moral fringes of the law as my friend suggests. Except for the shield on the wall that gives legitimacy to what they do, many, many lawyers are just like the extortionist in less legal professions - every bit as shady, cold and ruthless.

[Libertarianize the GOP]

bttt

[Consort]

"Trial lawyers are capitalists. They are using the current system to their best possible lawful advantage, just like any person in business would."

They don't just use the current system — they constantly change the system to benefit themselves. They took what could have been a justice system and turned it competely into a legal system. There is a law against everything and any law can be selectively enforced but never equally enforced.

[groanup]

Why is it not a conflict of interest for a lawyer (judicial branch) to be a congressman (legislative branch)?

[ninenot]

These days it is rare to meet a CPA or an attorney who has a simple, relatively inexpensive solution.

It's got to be a 500-hour project with several binders of BS included.

Sad.

[XLurk]

....rare to meet a CPA or an attorney who has a simple, relatively inexpensive solution....It's got to be a 500-hour project with several binders of BS...

And business interests are moving OUT of the US (mostly to China) at an unprecedented rate. A Wonder...

[MissBaby]

These days it is rare to meet a CPA or an attorney who has a simple, relatively inexpensive solution.

It's got to be a 500-hour project with several binders of BS included.

I think what many people lose sight of is that just like any other componant in your business, you need to direct the activties of your lawyers and your accountants. Their work must fit the same busines model as every other functional area of your organization.

As they say, sometimes the only way to win the game is not to play it at all, especially when lawyers are involved.

[friendly]

Trial lawyers are capitalists. They are using the current system to their best possible lawful advantage, just like any person in business would.

The lawyer industry is absolutely NOT capitalistic. They are an unregulated totalitarian oligarchy. There is absolutely no consumer control with the bar associations "self regulating" the ferociously corrupt and thieving lawyer business.

No other industry exists so pernicious and so devoid of any democratic oversight. The lawyer industry has become the enemy of the Constitution and our sacred freedoms.

[friendly]

There are many who believe the Constitution forbids lawyers from being Congress Critters. The grounds are that Separation of Powers forbids officers of the Judiciary (i.e. crooked shysters) from being in Congress.

[TaZ]

"The lawyer industry is absolutely NOT capitalistic. They are an unregulated totalitarian oligarchy. There is absolutely no consumer control with the bar associations 'self regulating' the ferociously corrupt and thieving lawyer business."

"No other industry exists so pernicious and so devoid of any democratic oversight. The lawyer industry has become the enemy of the Constitution and our sacred freedoms."

Ah, but you're wrong...the corrupt two-party system is the BIGGEST oligarchical system in the US today...of course their absolute power is derived by the unopposed hegemony that the nation's lawyers have on the government and business as a whole...the most hypocritical conflict of interest one can imagine in the judiciary, but the American people just love it.

Don't they?

I feel sorry for all of you so-called Constitutional conservatives who have sold your souls to the neo-conservatives in a last ditch effort to restore the Republic...the lawyers have already divided it up and sold our sovereignty to the highest bidder.

Ever heard of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913?

Why do you think we have to go to the UN before we can declare war now?

[friendly]

Their absolute power is derived by the unopposed hegemony that the nation's lawyers have on the government and business as a whole...the most hypocritical conflict of interest one can imagine in the judiciary.

I definitely will grant you this point. However, you lose me on the rest.

[Mikey]

Read the original 13th Amendment to the Constitution for the United States

[TaZ]

I suggest that you read, as a beginning, "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin.

Here's a link for more info... http://www.mecfilms.com/creature.htm

Moreover, I also suggest you take a look at 93d Congress Senate Report No. 93-549; EMERGENCY POWERS STATUTES:
PROVISIONS OF FEDERAL LAW NOW IN EFFECT DELEGATING TO THE EXECUTIVE EXTRAORDINARY AUTHORITY IN TIME OF NATIONAL EMERGENCY REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON THE TERMINATION OF THE NATIONAL EMERGENCY UNITED STATES SENATE NOVEMBER 19, 1973

In this 1973 official report, the U.S. Senate admits that the Emergency Powers given to the President under the pretense of the National Emergency of 1933 have remained in force and that the normal function of the Federal government has been suspended...

Welcome to the world of the lawyers friend...

[friendly]

I do not see your point.

U.S. Constitution: Thirteenth Amendment

Thirteenth Amendment - Slavery And Involuntary Servitude

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

[friendly]

Geez, I do believe I have actually found someone who loathes shysters more than me! I did not think it possiible.

[Viva Le Dissention]

What, you think the world would be a better place without lawyers?

[TaZ]

The "Original" Thirteenth Article of Amendment
To The Constitution For The United States

"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them."

Lawyers hold the title "Esquire", which is derived from the "title of nobility or honour" of English gentry.

I guess lawyers aren't happy with just being common folk...

[Viva Le Dissention]

Like, so, like I said, do you think the world would be a better place without them?

Everyone loves to complain about lawyers, but deep down, they are just everyone's dirty little secret, and they sure are glad if they have a good one.

[lorrainer]

"Trial lawyers are capitalists. They are using the current system to their best possible lawful advantage, just like any person in business would."

Going back to the most simplistic grade-school definition of a Capitalist, wouldn't that be someone who PRODUCES something? I don't see where chasing ambulances would qualify, IMHO.

[friendly]

The world would be a better place with:

1) Loser Pays.

2) Massive tort reform on a unprecedented level

3) Widespread empowerment of paralegals for independent practice

4) An end to punitive damages.

5) An end to bogus class action suits.

6) Outlawing contingency fees.

7) Lawyers forbidden from running from office. They are agents of the judiciary.

8) Most important: a total disempowerment of the bar associations. Lawyer discipline by true consumer control. Like any other industry.