Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


1 posted on 12/29/2002 9:10:29 PM PST by Pokey78
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-34 last
To: Pokey78
I don't think Little Boots is being very honest here. In popular usage, neo-conservative has come to mean a Republican who is more pro-war than is necessary and more passionate about remaking conditions in other countries than is best. Other popular meanings seem to be McCainite, Republican in name only, East Coast moderate Republican, or the original meaning refering to a handful of former leftists. But "neo-conservative" most often seems to refer to imperial Republicans and militant hawks (especially hawks who've seen no military service).

Citing Wilson, Truman and FDR as hard Wilsonians indicates a problem with the ideology. Most conservatives would take these men as liberals and their desire to remake the world as unconservative. And most liberals would consider the neo-cons distrust of international organizations to make them poor successors of Wilson and FDR.

65 posted on 12/30/2002 10:54:13 AM PST by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Pokey78
I remember an interesting essay about the supposed new term of "Neo-Conservative" written by R. Kirk. In that essay, he goes out of his way to defend Irving Kristol against claims of conservative heresy and pronounces him as rightly still a plain conservative.

Its interesting to see, who some would claim were the succesors to those two, Pat and Bill, fight it out tooth and nail weekly to establish who can call who what.

Success breeds factionalization in the wake of the common purpose and cooperation the conservative movement had when we felt isolated and small.

66 posted on 12/30/2002 11:05:12 AM PST by KC Burke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Pokey78
There was a time when Conservatism meant restraint: political, naturally; but also cultural, economic, and personal. Conservatism was an ethic of global constraint, grounded in recognition of human imperfectibility in which everyone agreed not to push the boundaries. The idea was not that the world should never change, but that it should change slowly, organically, and honestly, in ways that respect history and cultural memory.

This article is contemptible in ways too numerous to mention, but what they all have in common -- from dishonest arbitrariness in defining limited-government conservatives out of existence, to shilling for meddling heavy-handedness in foreign policy, to dismissal of abortion and cloning as purely "religious" issues -- is advocacy of naked pragmatism. Only power counts, for this latter-day Boot of The Beast; only might makes right, and devil take the hindmost.

76 posted on 12/30/2002 2:07:59 PM PST by Romulus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Pokey78
"In social policy, it (neoconservatism) stands for a broad sympathy with a traditionalist agenda and a rejection of extreme libertarianism."

In other words, "Extremism in defense of liberty really IS a vice"! I guess neoconservatives think Barry Goldwater was wrong, after all.

"On economic matters, neocons--like pretty much all other Republicans, except for Mr. Buchanan and his five followers--embrace a laissez-faire line, though they are not as troubled by the size of the welfare state as libertarians are."

Yes, it's quite clear that neoconservatives aren't at all concerned with the unconstitutional welfare state. That's why they support welfare for Israel, federal government involvement in education and energy, and federal support of religious charities.

In short, neoconservatives treat the Constitution like toilet paper. That's why anyone who truly respects the Rule of Law should have no respect for them.

"There is no constituency for isolationism on the right, outside the Buchananite fever swamps. The question is how to define our interventionism."

The proper term is "non-interventionism," not "isolationism." And there IS a constituency for non-interventionism on the Right. The only true position of the Right is complete non-interventionism: no troops in Saudi Arabia, no troops in South Korea, no troops in Europe. But neoconservatives are socialists at heart (see previous comments about aid to Israel, federal involvement in education and energy, federal government support of religious charities).

"Their agenda is known as "neoconservatism," though a more accurate term might be 'hard Wilsonianism.'"

You mean like Woodrow Wilson, the PROGRESSIVE??!

"Like Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan, "hard Wilsonians" want to use American might to promote American ideals."

You mean, like Theodore Roosevelt, the PROGRESSIVE? And Franklin Roosevelt, the Constitution-wrecking Big Government PROGRESSIVE?

"It's a designation I'm willing--nay, honored--to accept,..."

You shouldn't be honored. It's a title of derision.

"I suppose that makes George W. Bush a neocon. If it's good enough for the president, it's good enough for me."

Yes, George W. Bush is a constitution-ignoring, socialistic, Big Government neocon. Again, it's a title of derision.
77 posted on 12/30/2002 2:14:54 PM PST by Mark Bahner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Pokey78
A neocon is someone who puts Israel above America but pretends to put America above Israel.

91 posted on 12/30/2002 4:19:18 PM PST by Trickyguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: All
Here is the only quiz online I could find that distinguished between a neocon and paleocon. I was somewhat surprised that paleocon actually came in second and neocon third after "conservative," which is just a combo of beliefs in both types of conservatism. My strong pro-religion in the public sphere view made me think neocon would come before paleo.

Your results may be interesting. Here is a link to the quiz: http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=zeron

Here are the descriptions of the ideologies from the quiz creator:

Centrist – Just what it sounds like. Someone who doesn’t have any particularly strong ideological leanings in any direction.

Conservative – Specifically a "fusionist" conservative of the National Review - Heritage Foundation mold. Someone who believes in traditional morality and capitalism, and the need for a limited government to allow both to flourish.

Left-libertarian – The quiz uses a mild definition of a left-libertarian, an anti-statist who is somewhat fearful of corporate and religious influence on public life.

Liberal – Supports economic regulation to promote social justice and takes a progressive stance toward moral or cultural issues.

Libertarian – A libertarian opposes most or all government activites. Does not favor much or any government support for either moral or economic systems.

Neoconservative – A "neocon" is more inclined than other conservatives toward vigorous government in the service of the goals of traditional morality and pro-business policies. Tends to favor a very strong foreign policy of America as well.

Paleoconservative – "Paleocons" want less US involvement in foeign affairs than other conservatives and oppose mass immigration. They are also more favorably disposed toward the South and the idea of secession, or at least decentralization, than neoconservatives.

Paleo-libertarian – Similar to other libertarians except for oppostion to mass immigration, and shares the paleocon appreciation of the South.

Radical – Critical of bouregois morality and strongly opposed to capitalism and willing to use state power to achieve desired ends.

Third-way – More supportive of foreign intervention than liberals and less supportive of economic regulation, coupled with more-or-less progressive social views. "Third-way" is to liberal what neoconservative is to conservative.

(From here: http://www.lewrockwell.com/dmccarthy/dmccarthy14.html)


100 posted on 12/30/2002 6:00:23 PM PST by rwfromkansas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Pokey78
Good post
Bump
124 posted on 12/31/2002 4:52:41 AM PST by Fiddlstix
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Clemenza; rmlew; PARodrig; Yehuda; RaceBannon
ping
158 posted on 12/31/2002 2:38:56 PM PST by Cacique
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Pokey78
NeoCons are about 75% of this forum outside of the Randians.
162 posted on 12/31/2002 3:27:03 PM PST by wardaddy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Pokey78
Thanks for the edification.
174 posted on 01/02/2003 10:28:46 AM PST by k2blader
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-34 last

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson