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To: Objectivism USA
That is not what I said. Learn to read English better. I asked which Russia "terrorized and brutalized" and I used the current 13% flat tax as an identifying marker.

All nations change. Americans once bought and sold Africans like cattle and killed aboriginal natives for example. Which America? The one that recognized the Black man as 3/4 th of a person for representation purposes or the America of today?

If you say that is not the America of today I would agree. That is also not the Russia of today and the Chechen rebels did not start them fighting to save themselves from Russian "terror and brutality" but rather for nationalistic reasons. Using your criteria Blacks, Mexican Americans and Indians have a right to use force to break way based on past wrongs and to separate them from the Union based on ethnic or religious identity.

Since the Chechens had autonomy, and the same freedoms that all citizens of Russia had under the democratic era initiated under Yeltsin their can be no honest claim to their dispossession or loss of rights as a basis for their armed revolution.

If you are going to use past "wrongs" done to the Chechens as a basis for supporting their armed struggle then I would expect you to help the Aztlan movement bring back the Southwestern USA back to Mexico since the wrongs done to the Mexicans and Natives by the USA have been far worse then the wrongs done to the Chechens by Russia. If you can point to the mass movements of Chechens to Siberia I can point out Oklahoma and the reservation system.

7 posted on 12/26/2002 5:01:13 PM PST by Destro
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To: Destro
Understanding the meaning that you meant to convey is not entirely the responsibility of those you address comments to; it requires some care in how you express yourself.

As to whether the KGB taking over and running the Russian government constitutes a regime change; that could be debated. Even if we limit consideration to Russia since Yeltsin far more Chechen civilians have been killed by Russian troops than Russian Civilians have been killed by Chechens.

All legitimate government is based on the consent of the governed and the Chechen people have never voluntarily given their consent to Russian rule. I support the right of the majority of the population in any region to secede if that is their desire. If the Majority of the population living in Chechnya desires autonomy then they should have been allowed to form their own independent government and not some pretend version of "de-facto" independence.

The Russians have succeeded in terrorizing the population and creating chaos in the region so that a secession of hostilities is probably impossible. The Russian military’s continued intentional targeting of Civilians instead of fighting rebels makes them as deserving of the title "terrorist" as does the rebels actions.
8 posted on 12/26/2002 5:46:42 PM PST by Objectivism USA
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To: Destro
That was 60%, three-fifths. Not 75%. Personally I always thought 60% was about right and we ought to go back to it; I also liked Socrates' valuing a Woman at one-half Man.
26 posted on 12/31/2002 7:28:15 PM PST by crystalk
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