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To: Angelus Errare
The Apartment bombings would not have been carried out for foreign consumption but rather for domestic purposes. The mothers of Russia had grown tired of watching their son’s come home in body bags fighting a far off conflict that did not affect them. Bringing the conflict directly the heart of the Russian people would overcome the opposition that had been organized by the Russian Mom’s of dead soldiers during the first Chechen conflict. It is hard to disprove a conspiracy simply because none of the participants have come forward to expose it. If there were a government conspiracy to bomb the apartment buildings then the Russian Mob would almost assuredly have been involved. The Russian Mafia’s power and connection within the Russian society would make it possible to intimidate or silence most exposure of the truth.

As for most people or Russian soldier being hesitant to kill innocent civilians, history is and even are current time are full of examples to the contrary. The western press when it covers the story of the Chechen war is full of examples of indiscriminate slaughter on the part of Russian soldiers. While the western press is not perfect it still does much better at presenting the truth than does the Arab press.
19 posted on 12/27/2002 2:42:18 PM PST by Objectivism USA
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To: Objectivism USA; Destro
"The Apartment bombings would not have been carried out for foreign consumption but rather for domestic purposes."

Why? If as you claim the KGB/FSB "took over" Russia with the intention of transforming it into some kind of dictatorship-lite, then they have no need to cater domestic favor. That's one of the reasons that dictators set up their regimes to begin with, so they aren't accountable to the masses.

More to the point, as I've noted, the Chechens had already invaded Dagestan and Khattab's rhetoric at the time essentially indicated that he didn't plan on stopping the jihad until he got all the way to Moscow. While the idea of battering Basayev and Friends into submission may not have been an easy sell before the apartment bombings, the destruction of Khattab's vanguard and defense of Holy Mother Russia almost certainly would be.

"The mothers of Russia had grown tired of watching their son’s come home in body bags fighting a far off conflict that did not affect them."

But between 1996 and 1999 there was no fighting in Chechnya (other than the type that involves drug running, kidnapping, and human trafficking). Khattab had invaded Dagestan and the war had been brought to Russia, not vice versa.

"Bringing the conflict directly the heart of the Russian people would overcome the opposition that had been organized by the Russian Mom’s of dead soldiers during the first Chechen conflict."

If you were living in Dagestan in 1999, methinks that the conflict would have already been brought to you. Khattab's soldiers implemented the sha'riah in every village they passed, killed Christians, burned churches, bars, and beauty salons, and demolished Sufi shrines. In other words, they tried to recreate the Taliban in Russia. Now imagine if that was happening in America a couple of years after Vietnam. Would the American people have stood for it? Dear God, I hope not.

"It is hard to disprove a conspiracy simply because none of the participants have come forward to expose it."

Let me tell you something about real conspiracies. They're almost impossible to keep under wraps for years after they've been implemented unless you have either a ruthless and effective secret police system or inspire a tremendous amount of loyalty. Russia has a great deal of corruption and hence does not possess the former and the latter is rather debateable in regard to Putin prior to the apartment bombings.

"If there were a government conspiracy to bomb the apartment buildings then the Russian Mob would almost assuredly have been involved."

Uh-huh. The Russian government, which existed at the time on a fairly law-and-order platform, was going enlist the mob (a large percentage of which consists of Chechens) to blow their apartments so that they can justify a war that has already begun to reconquer Chechnya? Think about what you're saying here ...

"The Russian Mafia’s power and connection within the Russian society would make it possible to intimidate or silence most exposure of the truth."

The problem with the Russian mob in the type of conspiracy you're proposing is that you're ignoring that a lot of them are Chechen and that the mob is not a monolithic entity, anymore than say ... "big oil" is. It is an umbrella term for hundreds if not thousands of criminal cartels and, contrary to popular perception, it is hardly the Illuminatii, especially outside of Eastern Europe.

"As for most people or Russian soldier being hesitant to kill innocent civilians, history is and even are current time are full of examples to the contrary."

There is a huge different between the Soviet Red Army and the current Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. How many civilians do you think have been killed in Chechnya in porportion to the number of say ... dead Palestinian civilians throughout the course of the al-Aqsa Intifada.

"The western press when it covers the story of the Chechen war is full of examples of indiscriminate slaughter on the part of Russian soldiers. While the western press is not perfect it still does much better at presenting the truth than does the Arab press."

Actually, I disagree. At least al-Jazeera can describe Barayev as a "captain in the mujahideen army of Osama bin Laden," a connection that CNN and other Western news outlets refuse to make despite the manifold body of evidence to the contrary. The Western press routinely apologizes for the Chechens talking about their just struggle for independence against the evil Russian imperialists. The fact that the Russians are now reviled by the left after over 40 years of eulogizing them should tell you something about which side the Russians are on.
22 posted on 12/27/2002 6:28:36 PM PST by Angelus Errare
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