Oral sex linked to cancer of the mouth

Suday Herald (UK) ^ | unknown | Sarah-Kate Templeton

[hellinahandcart]

Not necessarily true.

But certainly true in the sense that, if neither the man nor the women is infected, they can perform hundreds of thousands of acts together with NO RISK of anything; except, perhaps, wearing each other out.

Which was my only point all along, that the act under discussion here is not inherently dangerous. And that indulging in it is not an act of criminal negligence towards women.

(rolling eyes)

[hellinahandcart]

There was a little more to the story than mere withdrawal.

Onan's elder brother had died (slain by God, for being "wicked in his sight"). Onan's father Judah commanded his son to marry his brother's widow, Tamar, and impregnate her so as to give his dead brother a "descendant". In other words, by custom, the child would be considered the child of his dead brother, not him.

Onan apparently resented the fact that the child would be considered his brother's. That did not stop him from gratifying himself sexually with his brother's widow--but he deliberately witheld from her the child she had been promised (which was probably the only reason she was in his bed in the first place, so you could say he deceived and defrauded her). And in doing so, disobeyed his father's explicit command, and the custom of the time. So God killed Onan too.

Judah told Tamar to go back to her father's house and wait for his youngest son to be old enough to marry, so as to give her a child to raise as her dead husband's. But he broke that promise and the marriage was not performed. Tamar finally got herself pregnant with a child of her husband's blood (twins, actually) by disguising herself as a prostitute and seducing her father-in-law Judah.

So I don't know if the act of withdrawal would have warranted death under different circumstances, but Onan was selfish, spiteful, derelict in his duty, defiant of his father, and just plain evil to poor Tamar. I'd say he deserved a good smiting.

[traditionalist]

So you actually believe "The Inferno" is non-fiction?

No, but it reflects traditional Catholic moral theology.

[traditionalist]

I honestly can't imagine why withdrawl is wrong but the rythym method is OK. Please explain.

Gladly. Sexual intercourse is a divinly ordained act whose purpose is twofold: procreation and expression of love between man and wife. These two purposes are intimately joined by God, so it is a sin for man to separate them. Hence all methods of contraception, including Onanism, are wrong, as are all methods of sterilization.

A married couple, however, is not obliged to have intercourse every day. In fact occasional abstience is encouraged by St. Paul. Hence it cannot be sinful to abstain from intercourse during the woman's fertile days. In so doing the couple does not separate the two ends of the sexual act; it is God, not man, who made it so the woman cannot be impregnated on certain days of the month.

Of course, it is wrong for a married couple to avoid having children altogether. In fact, all married couples are called to be generously fruitful according to their means, which of course vary from couple to couple. Use of the rythym method is in harmony with the divine law so long as the couple fulfills this obligation.

For more on this subject, I suggest you read Humanae Vitae.

[HumanaeVitae]

No, but there seems to be a group on FR--pro-drug, pro-porn, pro-gay marraige, pro-bigamy, pro-whatever floats your boat--that constantly blasts social conservatives for actually holding the silly belief that moral standards matter.

[Karsus]

You do understand that some of the 'social conservatives' you are talking about think that my wife and I should be murdered by the State because we enjoy oral sex.

These 'social conservatives' you talk of seam to have 'issues' with almost everything (Dungeons & Dragons, Harry Potter, LoTR, sex in any position other than missionary, drinking in any amount, and a whole list of other things) for reason I have yet to understand. I can understand protesting porn near their homes, but why should the be able to stop my wife and I from enjoying it?

The Bible is use as the reason they are doing it, but the 's.c' ignore the fact that Jesus turned water into wine.

[HumanaeVitae]

Hey, I'm not standing between you and your wife and oral sex, er, I mean I have no position on this issue, uh, I mean...ummm ahem...

Well, I'm nowhere that extreme, chief. But there's a long running libertarian/conservative debate over this stuff in broad society, not necessarily in your bedroom.

[Mamzelle]

Onan was killed for refusing to impregnate his dead brother's widow SO THAT THE OFFSPRING COULD INHERIT the dead brother's estate, and continue the line. And, also, to support the widow.

Onan was punished for disobedience, and that disobedience came about because Onan himself wanted a bigger share in the family estate.

This was a story of greed, not sex.

We could always read the Song of Songs...

[E Rocc]

I was also told by a physician that even though it is possible to transmit HIV by Heterosexual sex contact, the man a majority of the time will not contract it while the women share a much higher chance of being infected.

If it's indeed spread by transfer of bodily fluids, that stands to reason. Lesbians also don't seem to be a high risk group.

This of course makes the disease very politically incorrect, so we don't hear about that aspect. But think about this: has anyone ever been more heterosexually promiscuous than 70s/80s rock stars? Yet with the exception of some gay/bi ones, we don't hear about them coming down with AIDS (and if they did...we would).

-Eric

[E Rocc]

Lights out, missionary position only, through a hole cut in the sheet

Would that be called "Klan style"? Or does that depend on the meaning of the word "hole"? >:o

-Eric

[Mamzelle]

Women get HIV in Subsaharan Africa at very high rates, the method of transmission is heterosexual. Men are infected at only slightly lower rates.

If a male partner uninfected by HIV has any other, milder STDs (syph or gon or herpes), transmission is very easy from female to male.

[hellinahandcart]

This was a story of greed, not sex.

Except that it IS a story of sex. He didn't abstain from relations with his brother's wife. He took sexual advantage of Tamar, and got what he wanted while depriving her of the child that she was entitled to.

[Tunehead54]

Oral sex is sinful because it is a tendentious privilege, not a right.

---

What about the pursuit of happiness thing? Yes its part of the preamble - still ...

[Askel5]

except when the Church wants their say, right?

If you can point out the Church's condemnation of oral sex between spouses, feel free.

Until then, just another ignorant comment that ignores entirely the fact that the Church's teaching re: sex, marriage and family is based on simple, self-evident and incontrovertible truths.

Sorry you find oral sex between a couple to be the "culture of death".

I find the fascination with it -- as well as the uniformly sterile sexual acts glorified day in and day out by our culture -- symptomatic of the culture of death. Blueberry Hill has lost its thrill because it's dead as a doornail.

Now, go out and rub your Mary statue, you'll feel better.

Thank you for making my point. I knew I could count on you.

[Askel5]

For whatever reason, the people who are the quickest to offer unsolicited advice on child-rearing are your friends and acquaintances that are childless. Why do you think that is?

Is that an analogy of some sort? Are you dogging me for failing to establish my bona fides before making comment on an oral sex thread?

I use myself as example quite a lot of the time. I see no reason I must detail my sex life, expertise or desire like some immodest whore or wayward spouse in order to comment on a phenomenon that's shoved in society's face day in and day out.

[Askel5]

To be honest, I'm not big on being "judgmental".

Cough. Cough.

Look ... I exercise judgment and discerning and have no problems whatsoever calling a spade a spade. What you will not see me doing (I trust) is condemning folks, informing others they are no longer allowed to post to me or hurling specious and ignorant insults in some effort to hurt a person.

I realize I've stepped on some toes over the years but that generally comes when dealing with the emotional wrecks that are christianized atheists. Strangely enough -- for folks that believe in a strictly impersonal crap-shoot universe -- they hold their own Personal slice of ephemeral consciousness in extraordinarily high esteem and take every slightest criticism of their argument or premise personally.

Nothing I can do about that.

If ever you find me being "judgmental", you kick me in the shins, will you? I'll either apologize on the spot or offer you something with which to contrast objective criticism and personal condemnation.

[wcbtinman]

Please delete this thread so my wife won't see it.

[Mamzelle]

The point being, you cannot make a reasonable inference that the "jump and run" method of contraception is precluded by biblical law. Onan was punished for attempting to manipulate a legacy through disobediance.

[tpaine]

there seems to be a group on FR--pro-drug, pro-porn, pro-gay marraige, pro-bigamy, pro-whatever floats your boat--that constantly blasts social conservatives for actually holding the silly belief that moral standards matter.
325 -HV-

You say the darndest things.

There is to be a group on FR--anti-drug, anti-porn, anti-gay, anti-bigamy, anti-whatever individual liberty floats your boat--that constantly blasts constitutional conservatives for actually holding the 'silly' belief that individual constitutional rights matter. - It's a strange agenda, considering:

"Free Republic is a place for people to discuss our common goals regarding the restoration of our constitutionally limited republican form of government. If people have other agendas for FR, I really wish they would take them elsewhere."
Thanks, Jim
226 posted on 2/7/02 4:01 PM Pacific by Jim Robinson

[hellinahandcart]

I tend to agree; I don't know if Onan would have been struck dead for doing the same thing with, say, a prostitute or a woman other than the one to whom he owed a duty.

But, it seems both of Judah's elder sons were bad apples (both slain by God, after all), and both left Tamar *childless*, so maybe there's a hint there that Onan's "jump and run" was simply the last straw, after other prior bad acts? I don't know...