IS CHINA'S ECONOMIC BOOM A MYTH?

The New Republic ^ | Issue of 12/16/02 | Joshua Kurlantzick

[Acolyte2002]

japan is DOOMED due to pure demographics of a society no matter how rich that will evetually need to spend its wealth and resources to take care of its considerable aged population.....canada,australia current open door policy for YOUNG immigrants is addressing this potential social problem now and in the future....they are openminded earlier to get the creme of the crop while those who delayed will scrapped the bottom of the barrel later.....everyone knows now and in the future of the chronic shortage of health care...entire hospitals wings have to close due to lack of staff and firghtfully escalating cost of medical care from overworked medical personnel.....america...open your eyes.....see your future!!!!

[formosaplastics]

Again, you are ignoring simple reality. Pick up a newspaper and look around the world today. You have Third World republics all floundering and requiring IMF bailouts while China races ahead. All the time you are predicting that China is the country that's going to fail, it is today's Third World republics which are actually failing. Of course, you are completely oblivious to this. In your mind, only democratic developing countries can possibly perform well economically. But again, I ask you, just pick up a newspaper. As we speak, all of Latin America is growing disillusioned with democracy and electing socialist leaders. In Poland, the shipyard where Lech Walesa led the Solidarity movement had to be re-nationalized recently by the Polish government because Poland's economy is failing. Not only that, Poland's new President is a communist. Most of E. Europe is actually putting a bunch of communists back into power. In African Third World democracies, the majority-poor black populations are using their new voting powers to confiscate the white farmers' lands. Again, please just pick up a newspaper.

[formosaplastics]

On Japan, it's again a simple numerical fact that Japan's per-capita GDP would have to be around $100,000 in order for Japan's overall GDP to be bigger than America's. You seem to have a lot of opinions and theories for how the world is supposed to work but no appreciation for facts.

On Indonesia, it was doing fine up until it adopted democracy a few years now. Prior to that Indonesia's economy was growing 10% a year, now it's been experiencing $10 bil. in capital flight a year for each of the past 4 years.

[formosaplastics]

China's institutions are not perfect, but they're getting the job done more effectively than the institutions of today's Third World republics. After 50 years of democracy, India's parliament has not yet enacted even the most basic economic reforms like new labor laws due to constant legislative gridlock and opposition from India's majority-poor population. In India today, it's still illegal for private businesses to hire and fire workers freely. In addition, India's tariffs today are still 2-3 times higher than China's because India's pro-big government politicians jobs will get voted out of office if they don't continue to protect India's bloated, inefficient industries from foreign competition.

[formosaplastics]

After Russia democratized, what happened? Capital flight. After Indonesia democratized, what happened? Capital flight. After even Taiwan democratized, what happened? Capital flight.

Are you sure your theory about how democracy is the only way to go for developing countries is correct?

As a matter of fact, it is precisely because today's Third World democracies are unstable, dysfunctional basketcases, plagued by neverending legislative gridlock, that foreign investors largely avoid today's Third World democracies and invest in China instead.

[philman_36]

All the time you are predicting that China is the country that's going to fail, it is today's Third World republics which are actually failing.
In African Third World democracies, the majority-poor black populations are using their new voting powers to confiscate the white farmers' lands.
Republic or Democracy?
What exactly is a "third world republic"?
Of course, you probably believe that they're the same thing and that just because "republic" is in the name it is the same as the Founder's concept of republicanism.
How did that go again...USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics)
They sure didn't have the republicanism of the Founders in mind when naming their Union. Wasn't it Communism and Socialism they had in mind?
The "experiment in Democracy" goes global...

[Artist]

Interesting article ping.

[HighRoadToChina]

India didn't murder, kill, starve 65 million of their own people and murdered over 1 million Tibetans in order to "liberate" them.

[HighRoadToChina]

"As we speak, all of Latin America is growing disillusioned with democracy and electing socialist leaders. In Poland, the shipyard where Lech Walesa led the Solidarity movement had to be re-nationalized recently by the Polish government because Poland's economy is failing. Not only that, Poland's new President is a communist. Most of E. Europe is actually putting a bunch of communists back into power"

Formosplastics, why don't you just go ahead and admit that you are a Communist/socialist sympathizer who probably works for Formosa Plastics of Taiwan--maybe even based on the mainland, and that Formosa Plastics has millions of dollars of investments in Red China. For you to argue the truth and against the Communists would be like speaking out of both sides of the mouth.

Come on and come clean.

[formosaplastics]

Why don't u just admit the truth -- that Third World republics need one IMF bailout after another and, even after 50 years of democracy, India doesn't look like a mirror image of the USA? The problem with you people is that you have no appreciation whatsoever for reality or common sense. You're too busy imagining that Third World republics are flowering into mirror images of the US today, when in fact they are sinking deeper into the cesspool you've created for them.

[formosaplastics]

India just let two generations of Indians wallow in poverty while blowhard, socialist-demagogic Indian politicians gave useless speeches all day in India's dysfunctional, gridlock-plagued parliament.

[xm177e2]

Um why is Christianity neccasary for successful capitalism?

Maybe if they all converted to Judaism it would work, too, but that doesn't even seem remotely possible so it wasn't mentioned.

Of course, if they all converted to objectivism, they would be even more successful.

[weikel]

Of course, if they all converted to objectivism, they would be even more successful

I agree Im basically an objectivist I have 2 main disagreements( 1. I only believe forced altruism is evil 2. There is such a thing as rational religion ie the universe existing in time must have a cause outside of time or else the timeline goes back forever with no point of origin).

[weikel]

I agree a pro business non democratic government works better than mob rule.

[xm177e2]

I agree Im basically an objectivist I have 2 main disagreements( 1. I only believe forced altruism is evil

I agree with you on that, I'm really not a rank-and-file Objectivist. I haven't read any of the books, and I don't believe one iota of socialism will destroy our capitalist society. I just gravitate towards some of the ideas.

[HighRoadToChina]

"India just let two generations of Indians wallow in poverty while blowhard, socialist-demagogic Indian politicians gave useless speeches all day in India's dysfunctional, gridlock-plagued parliament."

But India didn't "final solution" 65 million Chinese and 1.2 million Tibetans. In fact, India gave home and hearth to the fleeing Tibetans from Red China's "liberation" of Tibet.

Come on, formosplastics, tell us that you work for Formosa Plastics doing millions of dollars of business in Red China--and that's why you are a Communist sympathizer.

[formosaplastics]

Again, if the Chinese have been so busily genociding themselves over the past 50 years as you naively believe, then how on earth did China ever get a population of 1.3 billion today? Certainly, many people died in China around 1959-1961 during the great famine, but there's a difference between people dying due to genocide and people dying because of misguided communist agricultural policies. And, if you're so willing to want to condemn China for losing so many people in a famine, shouldn't you also be praising China for adding about 800 mil. new souls to its population in the last 50 years? In the last 20 years alone, China added another 300 mil. new people! 300 mil. is bigger than America's whole population today, which took several centuries to develop, but China added more people than that just in the past 20 years!!! You've got to say that's the biggest feat of "life creation" in all of human history. And, yes, that staggering population growth did occur under the CCP.