[Podkayne]

One final comment. The UK is at one of the great crossroads of her history. She's going to have to choose between EUrope and America. Which way she chooses determines her future, if she is to have one.

This same statement was made on CNN intl yesterday by the French delegate to the EU in a 4-way conversation with the German and British delegates and the CNN moderator. The Brit was very relaxed and young and affable and didn't need to point out that the Brits will do as they will in their own self interests without making 90 degree course corrections.

Another elephant in the living room: Fundamentalist and proseletyzing Christianity is outlawed in France and to a degree in Germany. Baptists aren't allowed to seek converts and standard American run of the mill "christian" lifestyle is near illegal and frowned upon.

Breakdown the barrier to fundamental christian renewal in both protestant and catholic traditions and you will see the rebirth of Europe. Otherwise all you will have is Medieval oppression without the Christian overtones. Ditto for Vatican organization - self censorship in Europe and Canada and propaganda distribution is at an all time high.

[pepsionice]

One of the fascinating things about the German moral argument about the war...less than 5 percent of German population go to church on a regular basis. While 50 percent may go around Easter or Christmas...the bulk of society simply pay their state-required church tax and never say a word (if you don't pay, you can't get married in the church or have a church funeral...so they all pay for nothing). Whatever moral argument they are digging up...its nothing to do with Christian values...or they'd have to say something about Saddam's killing of his own people (but they'd never do that). The only values they appear to be choosing...are leftist social values...which appear to be in the losing column.