Doctors urge flu shots for toddlers

MSNBC ^ | Dec. 2, 2002 | Reuters

[Theyknow]

"Well, from my first hand knowledge, I've seen SEVERAL people come down with fever and chills along with general discomfort for WEEKS after receiving the flu shot. And I have known one that had to be rushed to the hospital due to nausea, vomiting, and subsequent loss of consciousness. Now IF I hadn't seen those reactions, other than the fact the vaccine contains mercury, I'd say it might not pose that much of a risk. But I have seen those reactions, and that is just within my own "simple world"..."

Since you derive all your opinions from first hand experience you definitely should not get a flu shot because it is bad.

[FormerLurker]

The material you posted is full of a lot of vague and conclusory crap. The only people who could take anything away from all those "maybes" and "possiblies" would be the paranoic and deranged.

I'll take the findings of medical researchers over that of the opinions of "Chancellor Palpatine" anyday...

[snippy_about_it]

Flu facts;

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/flu/fluinfo.htm

[Theyknow]

Since I don't know your source I can only guess at an answer and that would be that small pox was determined to be eradicated 40 years ago or so, and the vaccine has not been given for 30 years or so. Most people on earth have been born since then. Even when the virus was active it was not epidemic everywhere. Yes, improved sanitation prevents disease, but these improved conditions only exists in the developed world, and small pox is gone from everywhere. Do you realize that one third of those who were infected with small pox died and many of the survivors were left horribly disfigured

[snippy_about_it]

Thimerosal and Flu Vaccines
Some vaccines, including some of the available flu vaccines, contain thimerosal, a preservative that is used in many vaccines and other medicines (including contact-lens storage and cleaning solutions) to prevent bacteria from growing in the solutions. Thimerosal is a mercury-based chemical. Although no one has shown that thimerosal in vaccines poses a danger of mercury poisoning in infants or children, there is a theoretical risk of such poisoning.

Influenza infection is dangerous to infants. However, only two of the three flu vaccines on the market are meant to be given to children under age 2 years, and those vaccines are not recommended for children younger than six months. Therefore, most public health authorities, including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, recommend that infants at risk receive flu vaccine starting at age 6 months whether or not the vaccine contains thimerosal. In any event, most vaccines are now made without thimerosal, so even the theoretical risk of mercury poisoning from vaccines has been reduced.
http://www.drreddy.com/shots/flu.html

[Delbert]

Thanks for the links, I went there and read them throughly. Will discuss with our pediatrician.

[toast]

Our seven year old has had a flu shot for the last couple years. He is diabetic and therefore in a risk group. It is a nightmare trying to control blood sugar levels when he can't keep anything down. Many diabetics end up in the hospital if they get the flu.

Our other son is five years old and does not receive the shot.

[FormerLurker]

You can find "experts" to say anything.

Just as you can actually find "experts" that say there's nothing wrong with injecting mercury into little babies...

Words taken out of context are meaningless. Jonas Salk was a hero in our time, I shutter to think of his reaction to your distortion of his position

Er, his words WEREN'T out of context, as that is what he is quoted as saying in a 1977 Science magazine article. In fact, in 1977, Dr Jonas Salk who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists, that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. (Science 4/4/77 "Abstracts" )

In fact, how do you twist the following quote by Dr. Sabin, developer of the oral polio vaccine, as anything other than what he states?

"Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection."
Dr A. Sabin, developer of the Oral Polio vaccine

IN FACT, here's a graphical representation of how vaccines WERE NOT responsibile for the decline in disease..

 

From GRAPHICAL EVIDENCE SHOWS VACCINES DIDN'T SAVE US

The above graphs, based on the official death numbers as recorded in the Official Year Books of the Commonwealth of Australia, are taken from Greg Beattie's excellent book "Vaccination A Parent's Dilemma" and represent the decline in death rates from infectious disease in Australia. They clearly show that vaccines had nothing to do with the decline in death rates. (Note: Graphical evidence on the decline in death rates from infectious disease for USA, England, New Zealand and many other countries shows the exact same scenario as above).

So what were the true reasons for this decline? From his book 'Health and Healing' Dr Andrew Weil best answers it with this statement;

"Scientific medicine has taken credit it does not deserve for some advances in health. Most people believe that victory over the infectious diseases of the last century came with the invention of immunisations. In fact, cholera, typhoid, tetanus, diphtheria and whooping cough, etc, were in decline before vaccines for them became available - the result of better methods of sanitation, sewage disposal, and distribution of food and water."

Here's a bit more info on the topic..

VACCINATION THE HIDDEN FACTS

What in the world do you think happened to small pox? Do you think that it only survives in laboratories is because humans wished it away?

It went away due to improved sanitation. You may want to read the following info..

From WHO SMALLPOX ERADICATION SUCCESS RECONSIDERED

In further examining this question from a longer historical perspective, it became readily apparent that the WHO claim did not at all square with the earlier data, i.e., historical smallpox eradication efforts. If we go back as far as the last century, we discover that Creighton's independent research findings as published in the Ninth Edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica, strongly contradict the effectiveness of mass smallpox immunization programs. A few revealing excerpts follow:

• . . . in Bavaria in 1871 of 30,742 cases 29,429 were in vaccinated persons, or 95.7 percent.
  
• Notwithstanding the fact that Prussia was the best re-vaccinated country in Europe, its mortality from smallpox in the epidemic of 1871 was higher (69,839) than any other Northern state.
  
• According to a competent statistician (A. Vogt), the death-rate from smallpox in the German army, in which all recruits are re-vaccinated, was 60 percent more than among the civil population of the same age . . . although re-vaccination is not obligatory among the latter.
  
• It is often alleged that the unvaccinated are so much inflammable material in the midst of the community, and that smallpox begins among them and gathers force so that it sweeps even the vaccinated before it. Inquiry into the facts has shown that at Cologne in 1870 the first unvaccinated person attacked by smallpox was the 174

^th in order of time, at Bonn the same year the 42d, and at Liegnitz in 1871 the 225^th.¹¹¹

From HISTORICAL FACTS EXPOSING THE DANGERS AND INEFFECTIVENESS OF VACCINES

- In 1871-2, England, with 98% of the population aged between 2 and 50 vaccinated against smallpox, it experienced its worst ever smallpox outbreak with 45,000 deaths. During the same period in Germany, with a vaccination rate of 96%, there were over 125,000 deaths from smallpox. (The Hadwen Documents)

[libertylady]

Actually no. We don't get flu shots. Instead we eat right, avoide sugar and take lots of vitamin C, and we never get sick. Maybe we'll get a rare cold now and then. That's it.

[FormerLurker]

Although no one has shown that thimerosal in vaccines poses a danger of mercury poisoning in infants or children, there is a theoretical risk of such poisoning.

That is untrue. The drug manufacturers ARE fighting tooth and nail to deep six the studies showing that thimerasol is dangerous however...

And from the FDA data that I posted, thimerosal IS present in the flu vaccine.

[FormerLurker]

Do you realize that one third of those who were infected with small pox died and many of the survivors were left horribly disfigured

Do you realize that most of those that died were the ones that were VACCINATED against smallpox?

[Dianna]

Thats my gut feeling about it, not get a flu vaccine, but for my daughters sake, I want it to be a well informed decision. Thanks

You might want to check out how your day care center deals with ill children. I've seen places where a child was feverish at 4pm and brought back in bright and early the next morning even though "the policy" states 24 hours free from fever.

Has it been so ingrained that the teachers automatically wash their hands numerous times per day? Have the children been taught to wash their hands after they potty or wipe their noses? If this is enforced, most children will do it automatically. How often are surfaces and toys sanitized?

Do children who seem ill remain in the classroom until a parent arrives, or are they moved somewhere else (typically the director's office)?

From what I've seen, most places are lax. The teachers will be ones who will tell you the truth, not the Director. The teachers don't want to get sick either and they are usually the ones pressing to have a sick child removed, while the Director don't want to take a stand and insist a parent leave work, and stay home a day or two while a child recovers.

[Theyknow]

Histroy tells us that the Native Americans who contracted small pox from the Europeans died in even larger numbers. In case you missed it in history the European's arrival here predated the small pox vaccine.You obviously make this stuff as you go along, but you must fool some of the people some of the time.

[FormerLurker]

Histroy tells us that the Native Americans who contracted small pox from the Europeans died in even larger numbers. In case you missed it in history the European's arrival here predated the small pox vaccine.

History ALSO tells us that the Native Americans had no natural immunity against the smallpox virus, whereas the Europeans DID.

You obviously make this stuff as you go along, but you must fool some of the people some of the time.

Now what exactly have I made up? The scientific studies? The historical facts? Point out exactly what I have made up, and back up your assertion with facts rather than innuendo.

[FormerLurker]

You obviously make this stuff as you go along, but you must fool some of the people some of the time.

It DOES appear that there ARE some that ARE trying to fool people..

THE FRAUD OF VACCINATION

[MattAMiller]

Just as you can actually find "experts" that say there's nothing wrong with injecting mercury into little babies... Mercury fumes are dangerous, mercury its self is not.

[Ditter]

Many people die every year from complications after having the flu. The flu opens the way for bacterial pneumonia from which the weak never recover. That is why the elderly are advised to get a flu shot.

[FormerLurker]

Mercury fumes are dangerous, mercury its self is not.

Tell that to the children brain damaged from thimerosal, or to the people who ate too much mercury tainted fish. Take a look at the video from the University of Calcary that I linked in the main article. There, mercury is introduced to a neuron. You can see what happens to that neuron.

It is mercury ions which are toxic. Mercury IONS are not limited to mercury gas, and are available from virtually ANY mercury compound in solution. They are of course available from elemental mercury, as a mercury ion IS simply a mercury atom short of one electron.

As far as thimerasol, it is banned in the UK, Finland, and South Africa, and is classified as a highly acutely toxic, reproductive or developmental toxicant.

Ethylmercurithiosalicylic acid Registration Information

[FormerLurker]

That is why the elderly are advised to get a flu shot.

The effectiveness of vaccines in general are strongly in question, although the flu shot probably wouldn't be so bad if they took out the thimerosal...

From all indications however, vaccines actually WEAKEN the immune system against the very disease that they are supposed to be "immunizing" against.

[FormerLurker]

University of Calcary = University of Calgary

That's the SECOND time I did that in this thread. Must be my keyboard..