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To: Rye
Actually, in the Suez Crisis and the 6 Day War, the Israelis attacked first. It is a complete myth that Israel's wars have been solely defensive. Also, by attempting to steal the land in the first place, by swamping it with illegal immigrants (is this starting to sound familiar to what is going on in the USA today?), it was the Isrealis who initiated the conflict.

And you forgot (or never understood) that our tax money going to Egypt and the PA is going at the behest, and in the interests of, the Israelis. The money given to Egypt and the PA is bribe money to keep them subservient to Isreali interests.

It has worked in the case of Egypt, but not in the case of the PA, because unlike the Egyptians, the Israelis are actively pursuing a policy of ethnically cleansing the Palestinians, by a gradual process of colonization via settlements, and expulsion, land seizures, state terrorism (using weapons paid for by the US taxpayer, rather than suicide bombers), and economic strangulation. Under these circumstances, our bribe money to the PA is insufficient to prevent them (or other, non-PA forces) from striking back at the Israelis with whatever weapons they have (very few, which is why suicide bombers are used; it is the one weapon they have which has any effect).

Under such circumstances, we have just as much right to object to the detrimental effects of our tax dollars being used to fund Israeli aggression in the Occupied Territories, as we do of aid money going to Egypt or the PA. If we were not bound, hand and foot, in subservience to the Israeli lobby, we would not have to send billions of dollars every year, either to Israeli, or to our subservient or would-be subservient clients in Egypt and Palestine. If we weren't being dragged into this mess by treasonous forces within our country's elites, we wouldn't have to give a penney to either side.

To h_ll with both sides: they are getting, or will get, precisely what they deserve. There is no need for us to be dragged down with them.

109 posted on 12/01/2002 12:55:40 PM PST by Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
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To: Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
Actually, in the Suez Crisis and the 6 Day War, the Israelis attacked first. It is a complete myth that Israel's wars have been solely defensive.

I suppose you're completely unaware that Israel's firing of the first shots in that war was a pre-emptive strike against massive Arab forces built up on Israel's borders. ...Or perhaps you just choose to ignore the facts at your convenience? And btw, the Israelis kicked the holy crap out of all those Arab nations completely without U.S. aid of any kind, including weapons. They were using mostly home grown or French equipment at the time.

we have just as much right to object to the detrimental effects of our tax dollars being used to fund Israeli aggression in the Occupied Territories, as we do of aid money going to Egypt or the PA. If we were not bound, hand and foot, in subservience to the Israeli lobby

I agree with you that we shouldn't be sending tax dollars to either side (or ANY country for that matter), but your paranoid rant about the vast influence of "the Israeli lobby" is getting old. Those Jooos sure are powerful, eh?

because unlike the Egyptians, the Israelis are actively pursuing a policy of ethnically cleansing the Palestinians

You have a problem with the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians? I don't. And I suspect you wouldn't either if not for your blind and irrational hatred of all things Israeli/Jewish. As far as the Egyptians are concerned, they're second only to the Saudis when it comes to the dissemination of anti-U.S. propaganda, and inspiring terrorism against us. But of course (in your mind) none of this would be a concern if we merely stopped supporting the "Zionist entity."

116 posted on 12/01/2002 1:17:54 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
Actually, in the Suez Crisis and the 6 Day War, the Israelis attacked first.

Tell that to the Israelis (Jewish and Arab) in the Galilee who were killed by Syrian/UAR shelling from the Golan heights for 2 months before Israel retaliated.
For that matter, please note that Egypt/UAR blockaded Israel (an act of war) and broke the 1956 cease-fire agreement by re-militarizing the Sinai.
Likewise Israel only attacked in 1956, because Egypt was blockading Israel.

It is a complete myth that Israel's wars have been solely defensive.
Obviously they wished to gain security in 1956 and 1967 and liberate territory. However, Egypt legally initiated conflict both times.

Also, by attempting to steal the land in the first place, by swamping it with illegal immigrants (is this starting to sound familiar to what is going on in the USA today?), it was the Isrealis who initiated the conflict.

1. What illegal immigrants.
2. You do realise that most claims against Israel can be made against the US vis-a-vis the Indians or Mexicans.
It seems to me that some American nationalist are blinded by some hatred to this Elephant in the room.

And you forgot (or never understood) that our tax money going to Egypt and the PA is going at the behest, and in the interests of, the Israelis. The money given to Egypt and the PA is bribe money to keep them subservient to Isreali interests.

You got it. The US is arming Egypt and the PLO at the behest of Israel!
Please, go look at the Arabist State Department.

It has worked in the case of Egypt, but not in the case of the PA, because unlike the Egyptians, the Israelis are actively pursuing a policy of ethnically cleansing the Palestinians, by a gradual process of colonization via settlements, and expulsion, land seizures, state terrorism (using weapons paid for by the US taxpayer, rather than suicide bombers), and economic strangulation
1. Most Gaza "Palestinians" are Egyptian. Where do you think Arafat was born?
2. Between 1923 and 1960 all arab countries became Judenrien. The "Palestionians" got a country in 1923, (Trans)Jordan, and immediately expelled all Jews. In 1948-49 all Jews were expelled from lands captured by the Arabs.
3. 90% of "settlements" are on land owned by Jews prior to 1947, bought after 1967, or not owned by Arabs. (Large tracts were held unoccupied by the Turks, then Brits, they Jordanians and Egyptians.

4. State terrorism?
From 1967 to 1987 the Arab population in YESHA tripled and its standard of living became the highest for Arabs not in an oil producing area, save Green-line Israel. Their standard of living only collapsed during the intefadas and from UN/PA theft.

I don't blame you for not knowing these facts. The leftist media kept them from you.
Perhaps you should re-evealuate your positions.
Opposing aid is a perfectly rational opinion, but your ignorant Arabist attitudes used to defend them are not.

153 posted on 12/01/2002 10:10:45 PM PST by rmlew
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