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More on Longhorn (new Microsoft OS)
Slashdot.org ^ | Friday, November 29, 2002 | Anonymous reader/Seattle P-I

Posted on 11/30/2002 8:22:03 AM PST by Eala

An anonymous reader writes

"Everything I have read concering MS's future plans: Palladium, Client/Server tie in, Office 11 breaking backward compatability, 3 year licensing plans, product activation - all leave me with a foreboding sense of the potential synergy for furthering Microsoft's goals of complete domination. Now this article tells about Longhorn's new filesystem being based on the the future Yukon server. And surprise it will only work with new hardware, which they want to be Palladium enabled. And all pitched to you under the rubric of Security & Efficency. For years MS has been accused of only wanting people to run MS Software. Now according to the article, 'Microsoft doesn't think computer users should have to use one program to read and write a word-processing file, another to use a spreadsheet, and a third to correspond via e-mail. Rather, the company thinks, a single program should handle it all.' One program to rule them all, one program to bind them, indeed."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Technical
KEYWORDS: linux; microsoft; monopoly; palladium; security
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To: Astronaut
I am ready to revolt, but this is my situation: I choose never to go the Macintosh route. I want to stick with a PC. (My son can put together a new PC for me in an afternoon, as well as repairs and replacing parts.) Isn't Linux for servers and networks? Isn't Linux software limited? I surf a little, email a little, use MS Office alot. Is Linux going to fit my needs, or would I have to fit my needs to what Linux can do?
41 posted on 11/30/2002 2:13:28 PM PST by Clara Lou
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To: Texaggie79
Ok, it's official. I HATE Microsoft. (buncha tea sips)

I finally figured out Win 3.1 Beta.

(Gulping scotch.)

42 posted on 11/30/2002 2:25:07 PM PST by Focault's Pendulum
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To: Cicero
I really chuckle at most of the Mac user's when they rant and rave about what a controlling nazi Bill Gates is, and how they will never use his products. While Bill has done many questionable things in the course of his career, the Mac folks apear to have taken it to an extreme with their hardware. I can buy a power supply for my AMD machines just about anywhere, but try and find one for a Mac in my little town, forget about it.

While OS-X maybe a wonderous thing, it is just about all that can be run on a Mac, while my AMD machines can run any number of OS, except of course the OS-X.

Bottom line is that the Mac really limits its user, though they swear otherwise. I suppose one never notices the chains after one becomes used to them.

As a final thought, it is a good thing that the "My comments" section is not functioning well, as I forgot my flame retardent underwear.
43 posted on 11/30/2002 2:27:16 PM PST by Brad C.
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To: Brad C.
Did you know that Apple is giving away the Jaguar OSX to teachers? Someone here please explain it to me. (The only requirements are that the teacher be employed by an educational institution and use it on either a personal Macintosh or one belonging to the employer.)

The thing is, our school district chooses NOT to upgrade to OSX because, in order to use previously purchase software that runs on OS9.x, you have to have BOTH OSX and OS9.x on the computer. Therefore, you sometimes have 2 operating systems running. (Yes, Apple is just a smaller monopoly than MS.)

44 posted on 11/30/2002 2:35:12 PM PST by Clara Lou
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To: Clara Lou
Isn't Linux for servers and networks? Isn't Linux software limited? I surf a little, email a little, use MS Office alot. Is Linux going to fit my needs, or would I have to fit my needs to what Linux can do?

Clara Lou, I am on through my main home Linux machine ("vanilla" CD installation, i.e. untweaked, the kind most any non-technical person would do). On this machine I do all my browsing and e-mail.

I have also installed OpenOffice, though I haven't used it much. I'm told the current version is pretty compatible with MS Word, though possibly not with extremely complex documents. That could be a caveat, though I don't know the state of Wine et al these days (to allow you to run native MS Office).

Given your self-described usage pattern, I'm not sure why "software-limited" might be an issue. I've not found it software-limited -- but then, I wasn't really interested in playing my "Braveheart" game on it. *\:-)

OTOH, there was a CAD package I've been using (on Win98), and recently I downloaded the latest version. On Windows it froze -- repeatedly. So I downloaded the Linux version and used that instead. (Interestingly, the package was written for Linux and then ported to Windows -- so much for "software-limited.")

Oh. Linux has spoiled me in another way. I am so used to having 4 desktops (the default) to spread my applications around on, I get really annoyed when I get stuck on a Win machine with its limited desktop.

45 posted on 11/30/2002 3:11:23 PM PST by Eala
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To: Eala
The other goal of Longhorn is to shed off SAMBA, which allows UNIX boxes to act as file sharing to WIndows machines...
46 posted on 11/30/2002 3:17:24 PM PST by chilepepper
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To: chilepepper
If they get off SMB, then how will they prevent the Linux people from making a Linux version of whatever is next?
47 posted on 11/30/2002 3:18:15 PM PST by krb
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To: chilepepper
Microsoft could get hauled back into court for attempting to buttress its Windows monopoly.
48 posted on 11/30/2002 3:19:25 PM PST by goldstategop
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To: Eala
Thanks very much for your response. Question: What version of Linux do you use? My motherboard is several years old, with a Pentium II-300 mhz. When it dies, I'm going Linux. BTW, what browser are you using?
49 posted on 11/30/2002 3:25:38 PM PST by Clara Lou
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To: Clara Lou
I use Lindows 3.0. It installed in 7 minutes on an old laptop and I have the basic applications I need downloaded from their software aisles. The cool thing is with Click N Run Express one can download big files like StarOffice in a matter of minutes down to the desktop even over a dial-up connection! Its stable and I haven't had a dreaded blue screen of death even once. Its basically a Windows manager built over an open source Debian distribution. Lycoris is similar but is based on Caldera. Either one lets you enjoy Linux without having to learn complicated commands and you can customize the Graphical User Interface either Linux distro comes with to your liking.
50 posted on 11/30/2002 3:30:56 PM PST by goldstategop
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To: Eala
Great! Obselete all the software, again! Thanks Bill!

Oh, I beg to differ...

51 posted on 11/30/2002 3:32:17 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Jhoffa_
In the past you only had to upgrade to new software. Now you have to buy new computers every five years. Microsoft, thanks for helping us stay current with the technology curve.
52 posted on 11/30/2002 3:34:06 PM PST by goldstategop
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To: lelio
Oh, the reason is clear enough: security!

of course, security is a problem because of...

Microsoft itself!

so M$ is using a problem which THEY CREATED IN THE FIRST PLACE as an excuse to completely close off the PC and insure themselves of MONOPOLY and CONTROL, the ideal strived for by every tyrant.

I am optimistic that it won't work: remember when IBM came out with a model of the PC to "supercede" their first model (after other companies like COMPAQ started to copy it). It (the PS2 i believehad a special proprietary bus which was impossible to copy, hence insured IBM could make a killing on hardware cards.

well, nobody bought it!

HOWEVER there is extreme danger in all of this if corrupt politicians get into the act. there will be HUGE sums of money floating around trying to get crooked pols to mandate this sort of system. remember the clipper chip, fritz hollings and the RIAA... if hilliary becomes president, watch out. also watch out that 9/11 and "security" consciousness doesn't fall into this trap... ANY government becomes corrupt if it has too much power.

if Intel pursues this design too far, it will be commiting economic suicide and the leadership in the chip business will pass over to VIA or AMD if these companies are smart enough to offer an alternative...

i would actually bet on someone like VIA since the AMD just wants to be another Intel.

the problem is that VIA is in ...Taiwan!

53 posted on 11/30/2002 3:37:39 PM PST by chilepepper
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To: goldstategop
I checked out the Lycoris and Lindows sites. The Lindows site impressed me.
54 posted on 11/30/2002 3:38:25 PM PST by Clara Lou
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To: goldstategop
I like their products, but they cost a fortune (for those of us who actually buy them anyway) and as you say this revolving door computer/software spiral is getting tiresome.

I keep wondering when (or if) MS is going to go too far and open the door for a competitor to grab the whole desktop market.

I mean, hey.. if you put people in the position of having to buy all new stuff anyway it looks like there would be some risk there. Even to a giant like MS.

55 posted on 11/30/2002 3:38:46 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Clara Lou
Lindows 2.1 goes for $20 on Ebay.
56 posted on 11/30/2002 3:40:37 PM PST by dennisw
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To: Clara Lou
My motherboard is several years old, with a Pentium II-300 mhz.

I am posting using Mozilla under Red Hat 8.0 on a Dell XPS D300 purchased in February 1998. ( PII 300 ) For most straight surfing I use Opera.

57 posted on 11/30/2002 3:46:32 PM PST by Stentor
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To: sixmil
I thought M$ was going to XML also, but apparently NOT (or if so, they are keeping the format secret -- for security of course. more security is used as the typical, universal excuse for limiting freedom or perpetrating any number of corrupt and evil deeds)

They are terrified that XML will "let the cat out of the bag" so their Word monopoly and (.doc file) monopoly will make them irrelevant.

XML would make it really easy to pass documents around as well between browser, email, word processor, and spreadsheet, so M$ raison d'etre disappears!

Micro$oft recently stiff armed SUN when the later asked them to get together w/ others to hash out some standards...

58 posted on 11/30/2002 3:52:04 PM PST by chilepepper
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To: lelio
Its amusing that MS can't make a case why the consumer would want this. Its only purpose is for the industry.

Oh, but they'll try awful hard. This article is already seeding the clouds.

Enderle said the new file system will also function efficiently with hard drives holding at least one terabyte of data.... Such drives are expected to hit the market by 2004.

Can't EXT2 handle large partitions like this? The folks building SAN boxes have figured it out. But the question of how to back-up a disk that big is left as an exercise for the consumer?

Present a single, unified way of interacting with programs. Microsoft doesn't think computer users should have to use one program to read and write a word-processing file, another to use a spreadsheet, and a third to correspond via e-mail. Rather, the company thinks, a single program should handle it all.

Isn't this kinda what people use Windows Explorer for? Double-click a file and the proper program comes up to handle it based on its extension. Can MS convince computer users that they need a half-gig of memory to load this huge do-it-all program (assuming it's re-entrant) to handle all of their file needs simultaneously? You bet. Shiny stuff and flash attracts fish to hooks every day of the year.

But now for the Coup de Grace:

"This could bring a higher level of security than anything we've ever seen. It will almost completely prevent the platform from being compromised."

"Security". This'll get their attention. But note the word "almost".... it provides a convenient "out" for when the inevitable happens. At that point, the consumers will begin to realize that their security was not a design consideration; just the security of the copyrighted works and intellectual property they're leasing their limited rights to use... the way the owners want it to be used.

Game over. You lose.

59 posted on 11/30/2002 3:56:37 PM PST by TechJunkYard
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To: Stentor; dennisw
Thanks for the info. Linux may be my Christmas present to myself. (I love Mozilla. For some reason, I just didn't care for Opera.)
60 posted on 11/30/2002 3:57:24 PM PST by Clara Lou
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