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Canada: Romanow commission report says private health clinics should go
Canadian Press ^ | Nov. 28, 2002 | John Ward, CP

Posted on 11/28/2002 4:27:59 PM PST by jodorowsky

Canada: Romanow commission report says private health clinics should go

OTTAWA (CP) - In a properly funded public health system, there should be no need for private clinics offering MRI scans or minor surgery, the Romanow commission said Thursday.

Growing reliance on private diagnostic services "is eroding the equal access principle at the heart of medicare," said the report, which urged governments to reconsider the practice of sending workers' compensation cases to private orthopedic clinics for fast-track surgery.

"Rather than subsidize private facilities with public dollars, governments should choose to ensure that the public system has sufficient capacity and is universally accessible," the report argued.

Private delivery of some medical services has been around for some time, said Sharon Sholzberg-Gray of the Canadian Healthcare Association.

"In the province of Ontario for instance, there's been private X-ray and ultra sound clinics and blood testing clinics for years," she said.

These areas are expanding, with private MRI clinics opening in Alberta and Ontario set to approve 25 more.

There are other experiments in Alberta - private clinics specializing in cataract surgery and hip and knee replacements. British Columbia has also approved a clinic for hips and knees .

Romanow called these grey areas. He said diagnostics should be explicitly included in the Canada Health Act, adding there's no evidence that private clinics are any better or cheaper than not-for-profit facilities.

People who live close to the American border have long been able to go south for a quick MRI, if they can pay the freight.

In private Canadian clinics, provinces are supposed to pay for medically neccessary MRI scans, Sholzberg-Gray said. But non-medically necessary scans - say a pro athlete checking the status of an injury - are paid for out-of-pocket.

This isn't common, Romanow said, but Canadians worry that well-heeled queue jumpers will become routine.

Are these private services a threat to the universality of the health system? Or are they just a way of easing the pressure on an overtaxed public program?

Romanow sees them as eroding the principles of medicare.

And Michael McBane of the Canadian Health Coalition, a group affiliated with the Canadian Labour Congress, says they're dangerous.

"There's no way that the commercialization of delivery cannot jeopardize equity, affordability and quality," he said.

The Ontario Public Service Employees Union sees private diagnostic clinics as a threat because they'll lure scarce technicians away from mainstream hospitals.

And Alberta's health department suggests private clinics haven't cut waiting times for things like hip surgery. Waits for hospital surgeries in run 24 to 48 days compared with 79 days for a private clinic in Calgary.

Access and long lines can be a key problem.

Take Bill, an Ottawa-based TV cameraman who has a deteriorating hip because of arthritis and needs a replacement

"The waiting list here is 11 months," said Bill, who asked that his real name not be used. "I'm on the emergency list, too, but who knows?"

His hip gets worse as time passes, the problem aggravated by the heavy camera he lugs on his shoulder.

"My doctor says I shouldn't carry more than five pounds or stand for more than half an hour, but that's my job."

Last summer, Bill travelled to his European homeland on vacation. While there, he spoke to a prominent orthopedic surgeon.

"He said he could do it next week, no problem ."

The problem is the cost, 5,500 Euros or about $9,000 Canadian.

Bill is asking the provincial health plan to pay and is in the middle of his paperwork.

For him, access is key. He fears that an 11-month wait might lead to such deterioration in his hip that he'll end up in a wheelchair.

Sholzberg-Gray agrees that access has to be improved.

"The real issue is how to create access in an efficient and effective way," she said.

Romanow proposed beefing up spending to make the public system more robust.

Devidas Menon of the Calgary-based Institute of Health Economics, said he doesn't see how private health care could make money while still meeting standards of care. There just isn't that much slack in the public system that could be ironed out by private business.

"I just can't in my own mind see how it could be cheaper in the long run."

Sholzberg-Gray agrees, saying that even in the United States - the land of private health care - only 20 per cent of hospitals run on a for-profit basis.

"There's a lesson there," she said. "Why aren't more owned by corporations? There's not a lot of money to be made in complex care because you can't always predict the complications."

Romanow is unequivocal: "Direct health care services should be delivered in public and not-for-profit health care facilities."


TOPICS: Canada; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: fascism; healthcare; idiots; monopolies; socialism; sovietmodel
Luckily for my family, my mom is one of the nomenklatura who works at a hospital. She can get us in there quickly when we need it. Too bad for the rest of you saps who pay and have to wait in hours or days of pain! Pffthblpt!

"Universality" indeed. I am surrounded by idiots.

1 posted on 11/28/2002 4:27:59 PM PST by jodorowsky
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To: jodorowsky
Three cheers for your home country's pathetic healthcare system. If you're country gets worse, you are always welcome to emigrate to the US.
2 posted on 11/28/2002 4:35:06 PM PST by Sparta
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To: jodorowsky
"There's no way that the commercialization of delivery cannot jeopardize equity, affordability and quality," he [Michael McBane of the Canadian Health Coalition, a group affiliated with the Canadian Labour Congress] said.

What an incredibly ignorant -- and revealing -- statement.

Spoken like a Marxist true believer...

3 posted on 11/28/2002 4:36:17 PM PST by okie01
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To: okie01
PDC=People's Dominion of Canada
4 posted on 11/28/2002 4:43:39 PM PST by Sparta
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To: Sparta
From the article:

the United States - the land of private health care

This is a lie, what with Medicare and Medicaid messing up the economics of medicine, but EVERYWHERE except North Korea and Cuba is the land of private health care compared to Canada. You can be imprisoned for trying to pay a doctor yourself.

If you're country gets worse, you are always welcome to emigrate to the US.

Thank you... It may come to that one day...

5 posted on 11/28/2002 4:45:05 PM PST by jodorowsky
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To: jodorowsky
Canadians just don't get it do they?

Hey, everybody in the US is a line jumper.

Line jumping is good!

6 posted on 11/28/2002 4:46:20 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: jodorowsky
but EVERYWHERE except North Korea and Cuba is the land of private health care compared to Canada. You can be imprisoned for trying to pay a doctor yourself.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I knew things were bad in the PDC(People's Dominion of Canada), but I didn't know you could be arrested for going to the doctor you wanted to go to and compensating him/her in a way you both agree to. BTW: We'd love to have you here. Or, Canada can petition for admission to the United States, officially.
7 posted on 11/28/2002 4:50:10 PM PST by Sparta
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To: Sparta
Yes indeed, it is illegal. For you see, if we did communism a less stupid way, and had a private system with governments only subsidizing the people who are short on money, then the "middle class" might not support the system with its votes. So you have to imprison EVERYONE in the system to ensure its political viability. They really are that cynical -- I've heard it explained that way without a tinge of irony or shame.

BTW: We'd love to have you here.

Thanks Louisiana!

My colleagues at Nortel back in the corn years often joked that I ought to be at the Texas plant instead of Ottawa ;)

Or, Canada can petition for admission to the United States, officially.

You really don't want that! You think your parties are left wing now... 30.000.000 more potential socialist voters in the U.S. would have us all back in the caves wearing animal skins by 2100 A.D.

8 posted on 11/28/2002 5:06:48 PM PST by jodorowsky
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To: muawiyah
The illegal aliens are the professial linejumpers.
9 posted on 11/28/2002 5:12:46 PM PST by B4Ranch
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To: jodorowsky
Canadian Doctors: come to the US and set up a clinic right on the border. You'll have plenty of business, and the only Canadians you'll have to deal with will be patients, not bureaucrats!
10 posted on 11/28/2002 5:14:24 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: jodorowsky
This article is amazing. Let me see if I can prioritize the idiocy as I see it or if it is all equally stupid:

1. "There's no way that the commercialization of delivery cannot jeopardize equity, affordability and quality," he said.

There it is, just lay it out there without any shred of evidence to support the statement and claim it has to be true simply because you are so much smarter than anyone else. Or is he simply attempting to admit, without admitting, that commercialization will harm the public delivery system because it is better at providing equity, affordability, and quality?

2. Alberta's health department suggests private clinics haven't cut waiting times for things like hip surgery

Could it be that the ratio of private providers to public providers is kept so low by the government that numerically private providers couldn't possibly overcome the inertia in the public system? If the pool of inefficient public providers is 10 times the size of the private providers how could the privates ever hope to make a dent in the poor performance of the public sector?

3. The real issue is how to create access in an efficient and effective way," she said

The access problem would be solved by a private provider being compensated on a "productivity" basis. Doctors on a flat salary with no incentives for work performance will never be interested in solving access problems. Why see 40 patients daily if you get paid the same as if you see 10? The govenmentalists will always suggest that they cannot afford paying for private health care but who knows what the actual cost of restricting care is on worker productivity and medical complications that ultimately cost more to take care of unless they are shortcircuited by death?

4. Sholzberg-Gray agrees, saying that even in the United States - the land of private health care - only 20 per cent of hospitals run on a for-profit basis

Intentionally misleading statement by this government apologist. She is attempting to lead people to believe that 80 percent of US hospitals operate at a loss. In reality, the statement attempts to obfuscate the fact that 80 percent of hospitals are operated on a "non-profit" basis as outlined in our US tax law. "Not-for-profit" does not mean "for loss". Most of the hospitals in the "not-for-profit" (mine included) operate at a profit. The fact that private business may not be interested in hospitals is only partly due to the lower rate of return than other businesses. It is also due to the fact that many hospitals in the US have historically been private charitable institutions and "not for profits".

Ay, yi, yi. These people are so invested in the absolute infallibility of their governmental system that they are not able to even consider alternatives.

11 posted on 11/28/2002 5:19:45 PM PST by johniegrad
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To: jodorowsky
Devidas Menon of the Calgary-based Institute of Health Economics, said he doesn't see how private health care could make money while still meeting standards of care.

I have no idea what "standards of care" this fool is talking about when a Canadian women traveled across the border to have me do her breast biopsy last month so that she would not have to wait in line in Canada.

Maybe the "standard" is that all Canadians have to be treated equally........equally poorly, that is.

12 posted on 11/28/2002 5:31:49 PM PST by Polybius
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To: jodorowsky
You think your parties are left wing now... 30.000.000 more potential socialist voters in the U.S. would have us all back in the caves wearing animal skins by 2100 A.D.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

What do you think is going on our southwestern border with Mexico, besides there's always Western Canada.
13 posted on 11/28/2002 5:33:50 PM PST by Sparta
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To: jodorowsky
What would you expect from an NDP zombie like Romanow? He hasn't had a detectable brainwave since the 60s. Of course the union-salaried "expert" is going to toe the socialist line -- he'd lose his job if he didn't. If the situation wasn't so pathetic it would make me laugh. The countries with the most coercively monopolistic health "systems" are Canada and Britain. Of course it's purely coincidental that they are two of the worst health systems to be found in developed countries. The same coffeehouse intellectuals who blather on about how we should be more European or Scandinavian never mention that the health systems of France, Germany, and Sweden feature private insurance with deductibles and user fees. No, they want to stick with the pure Soviet medical structure. BTW, American readers, this is exactly what Hillary and Teddy mean when they say "single-payer" medical care. They mean that only the government will be allowed to actually pass any money to anyone in the medical business. Beware. What would you do in a medical emergency then? You couldn't make a quick trip to the United States like Canadians do.
14 posted on 11/28/2002 5:40:52 PM PST by TheMole
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To: jodorowsky
Canuckistan is truly delusional in thinking this will work.

There's no getting rid of access to private medical care when it will be only a short drive from most Canucks across an easily-crossed border...

15 posted on 11/28/2002 6:01:15 PM PST by glc1173@aol.com
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To: jodorowsky
Socialized medicine kills.
16 posted on 11/28/2002 6:04:49 PM PST by valkyrieanne
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To: jodorowsky
Socialized medicine has become a sacred cow up here: people honestly believe it is as integral to maintaining a distinct national identity from the United States, if not more, than maintaining our military.

I don't. That makes me a rank heretic, something less than a true Canadian, indeed, a quisling for the Americans.

17 posted on 11/28/2002 6:07:47 PM PST by Loyalist
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To: Loyalist
Our country could be so rich, having the natural resources we do, being right next door to the US, and inheriting the common law. This really could be the best place in the world to live if it weren't for the government and the zombie constituency.
18 posted on 11/28/2002 6:30:52 PM PST by jodorowsky
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