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To: Hank Kerchief
Since you're obviously, anti-government to the core, I can't take anything you say seriously. But I will address one fallacy you mentioned.

>>>I don't know what "liberty" you cherish, but suspect you cherish "liberty from personal responsibility" (i.e. security) above liberty to live you life without government interference.

On this specific issue of liberty versus security (safety), I have to say, both you and old Ben Franklin are dead wrong.

Franklin said:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

We haven't lost any of our essential liberty or basic freedom either. And besides, Franklin wasn't living in the 21st century and facing the immoral and destructive capability of international terrorism. So I will excuse old Ben Franklin in that regard. OTOH, you should know better, except your blind to the realities of the modern world.

I also suggest every American take advantage of the second amendment. I know, I do. Self defense is a right that is critical to living in America. We can't expect LE to be there under all circumstances.

However, when it comes to frying bigger fish, it is the Constitutional duty of the federal government, to serve, protect and defend the American people, from all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

Patrick Henry said: "Give me liberty, or give me death". Henry didn't say, if you inconvenience me, or annoy me, or bother me, you should "give me death". I suggest you get your head out of the 18th century and join the 21st century.

11 posted on 11/25/2002 5:01:36 PM PST by Reagan Man
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To: Reagan Man
I suggest you get your head out of the 18th century and join the 21st century.

Guess they never taught you truth does not change, freedom is still worth dying for, and security is for pets, not people, in that government youth training center (public school) where you got your education. You've turned out exactly the way they planned.

(You many not have gone to public school, but your views are the same as those who have been subject to that government mind-bending.)

I am fully aware of incredible evil that prevails in the world in this day, but I am also aware the bunch of clowns in Washington who cannot get three things in a row right are only going to cause more trouble if given more power.

What is the nearest Muslim country to the United States? What is the nearest Muslim country to Russia? Which country, the United States or Russia has the best intelligence gathering technology? Which country has suffered the greatest domestic terrorist attack to date?

The Homeland Security Boondogle is not going to do one thing to eliminate terrorism or even stop a single terrorist attack.

Hank

21 posted on 11/25/2002 5:35:44 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Reagan Man
We haven't lost any of our essential liberty or basic freedom either.

You mean like enjoying the continuity of life, the air and sunshine, or some level above that?

118 posted on 11/25/2002 9:05:19 PM PST by William Terrell
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To: Reagan Man
On this specific issue of liberty versus security (safety), I have to say, both you and old Ben Franklin are dead wrong.

I am glad someone besides myself resists the elevation of the Founding Fathers to Greek deities or secular pontiffs.

Franklin said: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

I have heard that quote hundreds of times, but not once have I heard it put into context, and have been unable to find the original text containing that passage anywhere on the Internet -- only that one line. I suspect that its true meaning wouldn't lend its use to the almost-no-government folks quite as well.

We haven't lost any of our essential liberty or basic freedom either. And besides, Franklin wasn't living in the 21st century and facing the immoral and destructive capability of international terrorism. So I will excuse old Ben Franklin in that regard. OTOH, you should know better, except your blind to the realities of the modern world.

It's incredible. Some people actually seem to be suggesting that if the USA can't be as "free" as they think it should be, there's no use even preserving American society -- or even Americans themselves.

194 posted on 11/26/2002 12:16:11 AM PST by L.N. Smithee
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To: Reagan Man; c-b 1; Noumenon; Hank Kerchief; Carry_Okie; Jeff Head; redrock
" We haven't lost any of our essential liberty or basic freedom either."

Really? I find this statement profoundly ignorant.

296 posted on 11/27/2002 12:47:43 PM PST by sauropod
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