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I think it says a lot about both sites that both of you have been posting here for quite a while, never making a secret of your affiliation with DU, and you haven't been banned; but 1redshirt, a lifelong Democrat and long-term DU member, dared to make a few ripples in the cesspool over there by posting constructive criticism for the party, and he was banned instantly.

By the way, bain_sidhe, most of us over here are above the mutual antipathy thing and if you treat us with respect, that's what you'll get from us. And I'm all in favor of presenting a united front against the erosion of our civil liberties.

But to be perfectly honest, I know for a fact that the War on Drugs was eroding our civil liberties long before the War on Terrorism, and that the PATRIOT Act doesn't do any damage that wasn't done by the Supreme Court long ago with Illinois vs. Gates, US vs. Leon, and Alabama vs. White.

I think it says a lot about both sites that both of you have been posting here for quite a while, never making a secret of your affiliation with DU, and you haven't been banned; but 1redshirt, a lifelong Democrat and long-term DU member, dared to make a few ripples in the cesspool over there by posting constructive criticism for the party, and he was banned instantly.

Then again, it might say more about my ability to respect the company I'm keeping. *G* If I went off on a DU-style rant about how GWB is the spawn of the Devil or Ashcroft is some kind of theocratic-fascist fanatic, I don't doubt I'd be banned right quick. But I don't do that here, just like I rarely get into some of my critiques of liberal incursions on civil liberties over there... (although, I have to say it's become somewhat easier to do so now that I can link them to matching incursions by Bush-Ashcroft)... it isn't welcome and I'm not interested in a fight to open closed minds. I'm interested in finding common ground where I can, and I work to make my comments appropriate to the forum I'm in. What good does it do to get off a few pot shots (even really good ones), if you just get banned? Maybe there a "watch how fast they kick me out" thrill to it for some, but not for me. I'm from the "it's your house" school of posting. I don't know what 1redshirt said on DU, I don't remember seeing the screen name at all. But in *their* house, they stay to the left side of the ... er ... room, to complete the metaphor. I don't agree with them on everything, but on the things I do agree with, I find good discussion and lots of information and ideas to take away from the discussions.

most of us over here are above the mutual antipathy thing and if you treat us with respect, that's what you'll get from us.

Um, have you read this thread?

And I'm all in favor of presenting a united front against the erosion of our civil liberties.

Great! Let's get to it.

I know for a fact that the War on Drugs was eroding our civil liberties long before the War on Terrorism, and that the PATRIOT Act doesn't do any damage that wasn't done by the Supreme Court long ago with Illinois vs. Gates, US vs. Leon, and Alabama vs. White.

I agree with you about the War on Drugs and that the erosion of our civil liberties has been going on for a long time - sometimes, in the name of "liberal" causes, sometimes in the name of "conservative" causes. But I disagree that the PATRIOT act hasn't increased the damage significantly - if only because of the ability for police to go to the FISA court for secret searches in criminal investigations - as long as terrorism is "a" purpose, of course - but with the broad definition of terrorism in that bill, attending a protest march could qualify. And, to make it relevant to at least some on this site, so could picketing an abortion clinic. Or, for that matter, protesting the PATRIOT act.

But, this probably isn't the thread to discuss that. I'll go see if I can find a current thread on the PATRIOT act. I think there was one about the ACLU lawsuit sometime in the last few days.