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TOM MANGOLD: Terror on the Tube
The Evening Standard ^ | November 19, 2002 | Tom Mangold

Posted on 11/19/2002 10:42:04 AM PST by MadIvan

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To: MadIvan
Good article. If Bush kills Saddam tomorrow, you can kiss every major city on the East Coast and in Western Europe goodbye. That's what's the anthrax letters mean -- that's the significance of the samples in those envelopes. Saddam has the keys to the kingdom, and Bush knows it. That's why we've been getting the run around on the anthrax -- all that laughable "rogue scientist" crap, the absurd "Amerithrax" Potemkin Village investigation, etc. That's why Bush has been doing the plantation shuffle on going after Saddam. In war, the advantage is usually with the aggressor (think 1939). Saddam has the initiative here: he struck first, and his back-end security is tight as duck's wotsit ("WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX YOU CAN NOT STOP US"). Better get used to it, because it will be years before we're out of this hole. Thank you, Bill Clinton.
21 posted on 11/19/2002 5:12:19 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: MadIvan; Nebr FAL owner; areafiftyone
Nuclear, Biological, & Chemical Warfare- Survival Skills, Pt. II
22 posted on 11/19/2002 5:25:04 PM PST by backhoe
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To: backhoe; Happygal
Re-reading this thread, I can't get rid of this World War II song buzzing around in my brain:

I DID WHAT I COULD WITH MY GASMASK
by George Formby

Now I'm getting very fond of my gasmask I declare,
It hardly ever leaves my side.
I sling it on my back and I take it everywhere,
It even comes to bed at night.

It's been a real good pal to me I must confess
And helped me out of many a mess.
My sister had a lot of socks to mend,
So she gave me a bouncing baby to tend,
And when I felt it leaking at one end,
Well I did what I could with my gas mask.

I bought a farm because I like fresh air,
At milking time a tried to do my share.
And when I found the bucket wasn't there
I did what I could with my gasmask.

The lady living next door, Mrs. Hicks
She heard the sirens blow one morn at ten to six.
She dashed outside in nothing but her nicks,
But she knew what to do with her gasmask.

By train I went for a very tiring ride,
There wasn't any corridor outside.
And when I felt the turning of the tide
Well I did what I could with my gasmask.

To see old Epstein's Adam in the nude
I once thought I'd go with my Aunt Ermintrude
And when she sniffed and said 'Uh!' how very rude
Still he knows what to do with his gas mask.

For years I've courted Anabella Price
And always found her just as cold as ice
Until one night the lass forgot her ma's advice
And I did what I could with my gasmask.


Regards, Ivan

23 posted on 11/20/2002 12:21:32 AM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
Just don't ever come near me wearing a gas mask, all right?

never


EVER
24 posted on 11/20/2002 12:25:06 AM PST by Happygal
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To: Happygal
Just don't ever come near me wearing a gas mask, all right?

No Darth Vader impersonations? Oh that's too bad, that's all the fun of owning a gas mask. ;)

Luukkkeee...I am your faaaather...

Love, Ivan

25 posted on 11/20/2002 12:29:37 AM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
NOT!!!..I mean NOTTTTTTTTT funny.
Got it?
26 posted on 11/20/2002 12:31:10 AM PST by Happygal
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To: Happygal
NOT!!!..I mean NOTTTTTTTTT funny.

All right, I'll take it's a "wouldn't be prudent at this juncture" thing. ;)

Love, Ivan

27 posted on 11/20/2002 12:32:52 AM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
Wise Man,
28 posted on 11/20/2002 12:34:12 AM PST by Happygal
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To: Happygal
Wise Man,

Well, "wise guy", certainly. ;)

Love, Ivan

29 posted on 11/20/2002 12:35:38 AM PST by MadIvan
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To: areafiftyone
The problem with them is when you buy them you have to be wearing them when the attack happens. How many people are going to walk around with a gas mask on. They are a waste of money unless you walk out of your house wearing one. By the time you put it on you will already be dead from the cyanide gas.

Wrong. If that's true why did the British government issue them to civilians during WWII? A gas attack even by aerial bombing doesn't deliver sufficient concentrations of the agent to overcome the average person within 4 seconds, (the maximum time that should be necessary to put on a gas mask). On the tube the gas dispersal system is likely to be very crude, probably a reaction mixture in a container, which would be thrown into a train carriage or onto a platform. Also, cyanide producing chemical reactions often produce a whitish vapour and an almond like smell, hence you would know something was going on before a lethal concentration of the gas got to you and so you could put on the mask before you were overwhelmed.

Of course, a biological attack is a completely different matter. You would have to wear your gas mask all the time while you were on the tube if you wanted to be sure you were safe from a microbial agent, since you would have no warning that the agent had been released. Strictly speaking only a military NBC-grade gas mask is guaranteed to give protection against biological attacks.

Anthrax is probably the most likely biological agent to be used, less likely are tularemia and plague, these two are more difficult to mass-produce and disperse as they are gram negative non-spore bearing coccobacilli. However, these two bacteria would cause a dangerous epidemic, since unlike anthrax they would spread to other people who were not infected in the attack. Mass production and freeze-drying of anthrax spores, under safe conditions, isn't that easy and I suspect al Qaeda would need help from Iraq, or some other scumbag nation, to mount an anthrax attack. A gas attack would be a lot easier and wouldn't require stuff to be imported, if the perps know anything about basic chemistry.

A Smallpox attack on the tube would be the worst case scenario, because by the time the first cases have been diagnosed and the alarm raised - hundreds of people all around Britain, and probably across Continental Europe, would already be infected. The Soviet's India-1967 bioweapon strain of Smallpox is the most lethal strain available, (at least a 50% mortality rate in unvaccinated victims). Unfortunately, this is the strain Sodem Insane is most likely to have, since the Russians kindly supplied it to North Korea and probably their Iraqi pals too. The British Government should buy in enough Smallpox vaccine to do the entire population and should make the vaccine available to any Briton who wants it. That would make mass vaccination easier if a Smallpox attack occurs, as well as not tying the fates of all Britons to the decisions of a bunch of incompetent PC left-wing half-wits.

30 posted on 11/20/2002 7:20:22 PM PST by David Hunter
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To: MadIvan; Happygal
I am disgusted at the fact that our military will have to cover for our firefighters AGAIN, should the latter go on strike for 8 days as they are planning to on Friday. The armed forces should be allowed to concentrate on defending Britain from Bin Laden's psychotics and preparing to sort out Iraq, they shouldn't be putting out house fires because of a bunch of left-wing trade unionist scumbags.

What if al Qaeda attacked during the next firefighters' strike? We would be screwed. If the firefighters' union won't accept a reasonable pay offer and thinks it can hold the country over a barrel like this at a time of crisis, then I think the union bosses are worse enemies of Britain than al Qaeda.

31 posted on 11/20/2002 7:31:11 PM PST by David Hunter
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To: Nebr FAL owner
The sad part is that 99% of what is being done is to protect the government class.

Yes, and that's even more true here in Britain, where we can't even carry a penknife with a blade longer than 3 inches! If you did see a few terrorists on the tube about to throw a gas bomb, then the Police would still expect you to use "reasonable force" even though you'd be outnumbered, unarmed and unable to get help from the security forces. Of course, the thought of allowing our people to arm themselves to resist terrorists hasn't even occurred to the statists who run Britain. Blair would probably be more horrified at the idea of your average Brit carrying a weapon, than the idea of a successful gas attack on the tube! We could do with a few FALs over here, or just bog standard Saturday night specials, but we won't get them, not in a million years, or after 100,000 Brits die at the hands of al Qaeda.

32 posted on 11/20/2002 7:53:56 PM PST by David Hunter
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To: MadIvan; Happygal
Unless there's a breakthrough in the next 20 hours the Firemen are going out on strike again for 8 days from 6PM on Friday. I wonder if Osama's psychos are planning to take advantage of the chaos that is likely to ensue considering that almost 40% of the calls for the fire brigade, (in my own region during the last strike), were hoaxes. Those hoaxers deserve to be shot.
33 posted on 11/21/2002 1:59:33 PM PST by David Hunter
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To: David Hunter
David:

I thought they were going on strike tomorrow morning. As it stands, I don't have to go anywhere tomorrow, thankfully.

I am appalled by the firemen. I've had two companies shot out from underneath me - it's not easy to find a job, and yet these blighters want 16% pay rises with 30 applicants for each fireman job.

Regards, Ivan

34 posted on 11/21/2002 2:03:31 PM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
The latest I heard was that they are going on strike at 6PM tomorrow. I get up to date information from the security guards at the University where I work. The strike is a really pain in the arse for us because it means we can't work outside normal University hours, including this weekend and the Saturday after next, which means we have to put off large experiments etc.

I am appalled by the firemen. I've had two companies shot out from underneath me - it's not easy to find a job...

Its a bloody nightmare finding postdoctoral research positions at the moment too. My current one runs out in February and if I don't get something lined up soon I will have to resort to teaching undergraduates statistics and basic computing skills, even though my PhD is in Molecular Microbiology. I'm looking around for postdoctoral work in the USA, its amazing how much competition for posts there is here in Britain.

35 posted on 11/21/2002 2:20:56 PM PST by David Hunter
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To: David Hunter
The latest I heard was that they are going on strike at 6PM tomorrow.

I have on BBC News 24, they just said it's "10 hours" to the next strike. Perhaps some are leaving earlier than others, who knows.

The strike is a really pain in the arse for us because it means we can't work outside normal University hours, including this weekend and the Saturday after next, which means we have to put off large experiments etc.

My sympathies. Labour is absolutely helpless and hopeless in all this.

Its a bloody nightmare finding postdoctoral research positions at the moment too. My current one runs out in February and if I don't get something lined up soon I will have to resort to teaching undergraduates statistics and basic computing skills, even though my PhD is in Molecular Microbiology. I'm looking around for postdoctoral work in the USA, its amazing how much competition for posts there is here in Britain.

On average there are 300 applications for every IT job posted on British web boards. Gordo should be cutting taxes and regulation as fast as he can.

Regards, Ivan

36 posted on 11/21/2002 3:05:58 PM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
I have on BBC News 24, they just said it's "10 hours" to the next strike. Perhaps some are leaving earlier than others, who knows.

You have an advantage over me there Ivan. I can only get terrestrial TV and only four channels. Channel 4 gives lousy reception here and I can't even receive Channel 5, still I suppose I'm not missing much considering its tastes!

37 posted on 11/21/2002 3:19:43 PM PST by David Hunter
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To: David Hunter
I get Freeview - with terrestial you may be able to get it too - you just get one of those Pace decoder boxes and put it on your set. I get more news channels, a reasonable documentary channel (UK History). It's good enough.

Regards, Ivan

38 posted on 11/21/2002 3:24:03 PM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
I doubt that my 21 year old black and white TV set would be compatible with a Pace decoder, (you have to retune it to change the channel). Don't those decoders use Scart sockets or something? What can I say I don't watch much television! I suppose its time I got a better set. I don't know though, at least its burglar proof and if I get sick of the BBC's left-wing crusades I can just dump it and stop paying my license fee.
39 posted on 11/21/2002 3:55:31 PM PST by David Hunter
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To: David Hunter
David:

I tune in if there is some breaking news to be seen, and UK History isn't bad.

Classic FM Newsnight is the best source of news however in terms of broadcast media.

Regards, Ivan

40 posted on 11/21/2002 3:59:45 PM PST by MadIvan
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