Posted on 11/19/2002 5:54:56 AM PST by KLT
I submit to you that Ben Franklin did not have the slightest concept of either the magnitude or the rapidity of the destruction that modern man can inflict. There was nothing in his frame of reference to compare.
First here's The Ruling (pdf)
From the ruling:
"There is no disagreement between the government and the FISA court as to the propriety of the electronic surveillance; the court found that the government had shown probable cause to believe that the target is an agent of a foreign power and otherwise met the basic requirements of FISA."
"Probable cause" is still the standard.
I suggest you read the opinion I posted above.
It's long but well reasoned.
FIRST the government must convince a judge beyond a reasonable doubt that the target is a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power.
FISA can not be used for other investigations.
For example: (from the ruling):
"FISA surveillance could not be authorized against an American reporter merely because he gathers information for publication in a newspaper, even if the information was classified by the Government. Nor would it be authorized against a Government employee or former employee who reveals secrets to a reporter or in a book for the purpose of informing the American people. This definition would not authorize surveillance of ethnic Americans who lawfully gather political information and perhaps even lawfully share it with the foreign government of their national origin. It obviously would not apply to lawful activities to lobby, influence, or inform Members of Congress or the administration to take certain positions with respect to foreign or domestic concerns. Nor would it apply to lawful gathering of information preparatory to such lawful activities. H. REP. at 40.
Similarly, FISA surveillance would not be authorized against a target engaged in purely domestic terrorism because the government would not be able to show that the target is acting for or on behalf of a foreign power.
As should be clear from the foregoing, FISA applies only to certain carefully delineated, and particularly serious, foreign threats to national security."
In short- no. The protection against this is only that FISA can only be authorized for investigating foreign powers or agents. Information found- in the course of a FISA investigation- about other crimes is, by law, kept.
From the ruling: "Congress intended section 1804(a)(7)(B) to prevent the government from targeting a foreign agent when its true purpose was to gain non-foreign intelligence informationsuch as evidence of ordinary crimes or scandals. See supra at p.14. (If the government inadvertently came upon evidence of ordinary crimes, FISA provided for the transmission of that evidence to the proper authority. 50 U.S.C. § 1801(h)(3).)"
Well, let's test the context. Could he have guessed relative to his time?
In 1790 there were about 4 million Americans, and maybe 500 million world population.
Today we have about 300 million Americans, and 6 billion humans.
So are weapons more destructive per human than they were in his time? I think so. Are we asymptotically approaching some maximum suportable population? Going thataway, but not near there yet.
So that really doesn't answer the question, because I don't think his statement is modified by total population. In fact, I think he would underscore his concerns if he knew for each American in 1790 there would be almost 100 more in 1990 that the government might seek to control. I think the basis for his concern is the inherent danger of consolidating power of "security" in the government, rather than the distributed liberties of the people.
A consolidated government led by Xlinton, for example, can be subverted overnight. Distributed liberty depends on the virtue of an entire populace, which in America has always been vastly weighted toward the good, and in that case almost impossible to subvert.
If the infiltration, decay and dumbing down continues, and the people do not protect their own liberties, then they don't deserve anything, much less a secure state.
And this does not depend on the level of destruction man can command.
Thomas Jefferson would know what to do with foreign spies, saboteurs and terrorists. Allowing them to function without scrutiny under the guise of civil right is NOT what he would do.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."
"In all these cases, the unwritten laws of necessity, of self- preservation, and of the public safety, control the written laws of meum and tuum."
press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a2_3s8.html
Thomas Jefferson to John B. Colvin Sept. 20, 1810
So, what's the scoop with this?
They have to pay for cashing money orders or traveler's checks, so they invented a BS excuse.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a2_3s8.html
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.