Malaysia State 'Cancels' Xmas As Muslims Fast

IOL ^ | 11-18-2002

[muawiyah]

"God" is not Biblical either. It's just a name in English for Yaweh and Jehovah.

The name "Allah", used for the God of Abraham, is older than "God".

I think you may be reading the wrong Bible - you know, one of them newfangled translations or something!

[sarasmom]

Just out of idle curiousity, which english translation/version of the bible do you ascribe too?

[Michael2001]

So tolerant of other relgions. It's only our foreign policy that they have a problem with.

[goldstategop]

The religion of peace is tolerant of Christmas - by banning it from history.

[vrwc1]

"God" is not Biblical either. It's just a name in English for Yaweh and Jehovah.

You are not quite right - God is not a name, but is rather his title. You are correct in saying that his name is Yaweh (or Jehovah).

The name "Allah", used for the God of Abraham, is older than "God".

Not really correct - as I said above, God is not his name, Yaweh is, so what you have stated is not pertinent. Besides, "Allah" is never used in the Bible.

I think you may be reading the wrong Bible - you know, one of them newfangled translations or something!

OK, let's not talk about translations. Let's talk about the original Hebrew old testament. Show me where God is called "Allah" there. Let me save you some trouble - it isn't in there. God was never called "Allah" in the Bible, therefore it is inconceivable that a Christian would call him that.

[vrwc1]

Hi sarasmom. I don't put my faith in any particular translation. I think if there's a question about the meaning of any particular passage we really need to examine the old texts in Hebrew (OT) and Greek (NT) to understand what is really being said. As for translations, I think a lot can be gained by examining different ones to see how they are worded and the thoughts are expressed, while still being careful to remain faitful to the original intent of the author/holy spirit.

[LPStar]

Allah is like "God" in English, or "Gott" in German, or "Dios" in Spanish. Christians and Jews use the term "Allah" if they are native Arabic speakers.

[vrwc1]

If that is the case it is news to me. Also, no one has yet shown me where "Allah" is in the Bible.

Regardless of semantics, the Allah of Islam is not the God of the Bible. The only sure way to heaven for a Muslim is to die a martyr, while slaughtering "infidels". Blowing up innocent Muslims as a "suicide bomber" would be a one way ticket to hell for a Christian, whose only hope for salvation is a repentant heart and faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ. These are obviously two completely different concepts of God. There can be no arguing that.

[muawiyah]

There's the Final Judgment on the road to salvation. The business about dieing as a martyr is a Christian belief that was adopted into Islam. There are others. In fact, the whole of Islam resembles nothing so much as the "Arian Heresy", and that used to be quite popular throughout Europe until it was suppressed - mostly through violent means. Your complaint, though, is more about the idea of killing other people, particularly innocent people. There's plenty of Islamic authority to the effect that killing innocent people is one way to make sure you are tossed into Outer Darkness at the Final Judgment.

Find a New Testament in Arabic to see where Allah is found in "The Bible". You might trouble yourself to find a Latin Bible where you can discover "God" is nowhere to be found. Your local Catholic church can probably provide you the opportunity.

"Lah" is a word that can be associated with "Moon". "Deus", a Latin word for "God" is clearly a cognate of "Zeus". We can play wordgames all day long, but you are correct that we have to look at the nature of the deity invoked to see if we mean the same thing.

It's quite possible that there are individuals out there whose view of God is erroneous, irrespective of the name used.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

I'm not real fond of muslims, but on this one, I agree 100% with cancelling Christmas.

Signed,

A Christmas Depressive

[vrwc1]

I think your knowledge of Christianity is somewhat shallow. Either that or you are being purposefully disingenious about your representations of it. In Christianity there is no doctrine of salvation by dieing as a martyr, while plainly there is in Islam. As I said before, the only way to salvation for a Christian is by belief in the perfect, finished work of Jesus Christ - there is nothing I can do to earn salvation. This is a belief that is held by Christians alone. All other religions, including Islam, require a person to earn their salvation somehow by being 'good', which apparently for Muslims includes dieing while slaughtering 'infidels'. That you cannot deny - the doctrine of the 72 virgins. It is proclaimed daily by Mullahs in the Middle East. We've all heard it, so you can't pretend it doesn't exist.

As I mentioned before, God is the title of Yaweh (or Jehovah). "Elohim" is the word in the Bible that is translated as "God" in English. This word is found throughout the Bible, so I don't think you can really say that "God" is nowhere to be found. And by the way, the Catholic church is not the source of all knowledge for Christianity - there are many (better) places I can go besides there to research my beliefs. The Catholic church holds many beliefs that I (and millions of other Christians) believe are in serious error, so they are definitely not my first resort for educational materials!

I don't wish to play word games. I wish to deeply examine the nature of God. Based on such an examination, Yaweh plainly is not the same god as Allah, no matter how much Muslims try to insist that he is.

It's quite possible that there are individuals out there whose view of God is erroneous, irrespective of the name used.

No, it is not "quite possible" - it is an absolute certainty!

May God bless you as you seek him.

[muawiyah]

"No greater love, et al, et seq, martyrdom"

It's in there.

I'm sure you overlooked it unintentionally.

[muawiyah]

BTW, rather than the "finished work" I prefer my Jesus to manifest Himself as a "living Torah". There's more to come!

[vrwc1]

Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13

No, I didn't overlook it because it isn't applicable. It doesn't speak of martyrdom. It speaks of the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross for those who believe in him. It has nothing to do with martyrdom or salvation, which as I stated before, comes only through faith in the finished, perfect work of Jesus. Christians may be martyred because of their faith, but it does not 'earn' them salvation - that has already been accomplished through their faith.

This is in contrast to Islam, where one who is martyred when slaughtering 'infidels' has 'earned' his way to heaven and is supposedly granted 72 perpetual virgins.

[vrwc1]

BTW, rather than the "finished work" I prefer my Jesus to manifest Himself as a "living Torah". There's more to come!

Agreed - there is more to come. However, the work of salvation is complete. Jesus himself said it on the cross just before he dismissed his spirit - "It is finished." There is nothing further that anyone can do to earn salvation. He has done the work, and is now our heavenly high priest seated at the right hand of the Father, in contrast to the Old Testament priests who never sat and were continually working and offering sacrifices to temporarily cover the sins of the people. Their work was never done, but Jesus' redemptive work is completed to the uttermost!

[muawiyah]

The "72 virgins" thing is in a truly questionable Hadith. It ain't in the Koran!

Folks in centuries after Mohammad arrived at this one by sitting around asking "What would Mohammad say, what would Mohammad do, what would Mohammad think." The error is to place yourelf in the seat of the prophet who supposedly gets the word from God. Unless you are the prophet, and God is talking to you, the specific error is idolotry.

I avoid the WWJD approach myself in consideration of the grivous error the Moslems made in doing something akin to that.

[muawiyah]

The "no greater love" clause is applicable to all. As you can see we have interpretive differences over the meaning of the Scriptures. Ever since the Religious Wars in the 16th Century, Christians have generally rejected the idea that we should advance one or the other interpretations by force. Before that, Christians were not different from what we see among many of the Moslems these days.

[vrwc1]

Regardless of whether it's in the Koran or not, it is now a belief that is firmly entrenched in the minds of most Muslims, and is a huge motivating factor for "suicide bombers."

I'm with you somewhat on the WWJD thing. Since I'm not Jesus (who was God - something I would never dare to come close to claiming), I can't put myself in his place or react to situations the same way he would, nor should I. I tend to approach life from the angle of WWJHMD - "What would Jesus have me do?" I think this can usually be easily discerned if you have a solid understanding of the Bible.

[vrwc1]

I will agree that the passage can also apply to believers. In that case it speaks of not necessarily laying down your life physically for Jesus (though it may come to that) but of offering your entire life for service to him. Regardless, laying down your life doesn't save you, but rather the faith that causes you to lay down your life has already saved you.

You keep bringing up the distant past - I don't want to talk about the mistakes that others made back then - I want to talk about now. What do you think Christians believe? Are you telling me that Christians believe that if they die a martyr for the faith that 'earns' them a ticket to heaven? Is that really what you think?