[nopardons]

" Libertarian principles " did NOT " create this country ". As a matter of fact, Libertarians have purloined some of its supposed " principles " and claim that they invented them / that the FFs were Libertarians; all the while, denying factual history.

If you, for one moment, believe that the FFs and those who lived here during the Revolution and immediately afterwards, were NOT intolerant of much and did NOT " want to impose their " cruel " intolerence on others ", then you don't even know the most basic of things about history or about America !

In colonial times and down to only a few decades prior to today, there were laws against pornography, public lewdness, public intoxication, racial inetrmarriage, prostitution, sodomy, oral sex between even married couples, homosexuality, not attending church, gossipping,gambling, abortion, premarital sex, adultry ( which, BTW, is STILL on the books in Washington,D.C. ! ),stores / business being done on Sundays,blacks voting, women voting, and a whole panaply of other " intolerent " things that Libertarians are for.

Libertarians did NOT ( since they only became a subspecies of a fringe political party about 30 years ago ) write the Constitution, frame the BoR, become president, start this nations, nor any of the other wildly delusional things that you have written or think.

Oh and BTW, Jefferson, for all of the " good " that he did, was also pretty bad , re Libertarian positions. He kept slaves, he was a profligate, and had a losuy take on some foreign policy matters. Heck, he did NOT even bother to go to Congress, so that they could " declare war ", before he went after the Barbary pirates. He also almost got us involved in the French Revolution !

[Roscoe]

In colonial times and down to only a few decades prior to today, there were laws against pornography, public lewdness, public intoxication, racial inetrmarriage, prostitution, sodomy, oral sex between even married couples, homosexuality, not attending church, gossipping,gambling, abortion

Facts! No fair!!!

[exodus]

To: exodus
"...Oh and BTW, Jefferson, for all of the " good " that he did, was also pretty bad , re Libertarian positions. He kept slaves, he was a profligate, and had a losuy take on some foreign policy matters. Heck, he did NOT even bother to go to Congress, so that they could " declare war ", before he went after the Barbary pirates. He also almost got us involved in the French Revolution !"
# 175 by nopardons
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Jefferson ASKED for a Congressional Declaration of War.

His political opponent Hamilton, a believer in a strong central government, stated that a declaration of war wasn't necessary, as the United States had been attacked.

Hamilton won the political battle, leaving Jefferson in the position of going to war without a declaration, or failing to do his duty, as Commander-in-Chief, to protect American shipping from attack.

Jefferson went to war without a Declaration of War, but he did have a resolution from Congress authorizing action against the pirates, specifically naming the nation of Tripoli as our enemy.