1.) There are some FR posters (it doesn't seem right to call them FReepers) who use insults instead of facts to counter good arguments. (Cough)Deb(Cough)Howlin
2.) There have been a few FReepers who have made this such an excellent thread (quotes from posts will be reposted and outlined in a minute)-- these people include: antidisestablishment (posts 57, 177);
dirtboy (posts 196, 225, among others);
Nuke'm Glowing (posts 209, 256, plus a cool name); and last but most certainly not least,
Abundy (no specific posts, but rather a continual use of logical reasoning and great points)
3.) Deb does not deserve to bring down this thread with unsubstantiated claims and baseless insults. (Please, Deb, don't flame me with another ridiculous post again. Keep your opinions to yourself, because two people can't have a conversation if one isn't willing to listen)... (Psss.... you're the "one")
4.) The more I hear from the extremist give-up-all-constitutional-rights people (for lack of a better name), the more I am against their side. Isn't there a quote about that-- opening your mouth and proving your stupidity to everyone instead of shutting it up and leaving at least some doubt?
I think I am forgetting something that I wanted to say... oh, well... senior moment :-)
God Bless
Antidisestablishment--
Post #87: "...But nothing can give politicians, police or defense agencies license to overthrow our Constitution. The rights enshrined therein are not given by agency; they are not even a consequence of citizenship; they are not a privilege granted by chance or effort. They are the birthright of every living human being. They are the constituent elements of humanity itself.
No individual or agency has the power to restrict, rescind, or in any way transfer these rights. Any American who suggests a “temporary” laying aside of rights is a traitor to our Republic and an enemy to man and God. Our soldiers and our officials have sworn to uphold these truths and to fight against any enemy, foreign or domestic, who would attack these principles. Those who breech this oath are cowards and traitors.
We can win this “war” without resorting to draconian* measures. Our founding fathers established a Republic that was capable of self-governance—even in times of war. The only way to save her is to return to those principles on which she was founded...
You who defend such garbage deserve the world which you would build. As for me and my house, we will serve God and our country. And we will fight you tooth and nail."
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Post #177: "...It could be likened to impressionist art: sometimes you need to see the big picture before the constituent parts and patterns make sense."
Nice analogy.
Dirtboy--
Post #196: [Original comment from Deb: "They are welcome to monitor anything and everything I come in contact with. I don't break laws and I don't have anything to hide. I volunteer my records. It's not an invasion of privacy if you welcome the process."]
[Dirtboy's response:] "That's the whole point, Deb. It is your perogative to surrender your own rights voluntarily. It is NOT your perogative to have me surrender mine against my will. Oh, and BTW, I have never been convicted of anything worse than a traffic ticket. It's not that I have something to hide. It's that I have something to protect - my rights."
The exact same things that I was thinking...
Post #225: "Deb, we had a decent thread going here until you came along and started crapping all over the place."
I noticed, too.
Nuke'm Glowing:
Post #209: [To Deb] "You are supporting the elimination of my rights!! That's where the line is drawn."
Sums up our general argument quite well.
Post #256: [To Deb] "I got 4 wounds from defending people like you to make an ass of themselves. I also learned how to be an expert capitalist. I also know what our Constitution means to everyone who has fought for it. If you want to give it up, then give up some blood for it. Otherwise, ... open up some books. I would suggest the Federalist Papers as an opener and all of the writings of Jefferson."
Self-explanatory.
Either way, this legislation will bear watching in the courts. It's pretty scary when we must invest our hopes in the most liberal sector of our government becuause Congress is too lazy to do their jobs!