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To: VadeRetro; Junior; PatrickHenry; Alamo-Girl; f.Christian; Phaedrus
... [S]cience-based information and conceptual belief systems should not be presented together.

Fundamentally, to insist on "science-based information" exclusively is itself an indication of a preferred "conceptual belief system." It is tantamount to saying: "I wish to exclude other belief systems, for I will brook no rivals to my own."

If macroevolution is true, then it doesn't need to be "defended" by closing it off to questions or challenges. Indeed, I was taught that this is the very means by which scientific knowledge advances.

81 posted on 11/08/2002 6:19:00 AM PST by betty boop
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To: betty boop
If macroevolution is true, then it doesn't need to be "defended" by closing it off to questions or challenges. Indeed, I was taught that this is the very means by which scientific knowledge advances.

Indeed, that is correct. Such challenges are mounted and welcomed. I suspect that you understand that IDism is not a challenge to macroevolution. Instead, it is a challenge to the nature of science. Macroevolution is simply the rallying point, the reason for questioning science.

83 posted on 11/08/2002 6:48:14 AM PST by Nebullis
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To: betty boop
Fundamentally, to insist on "science-based information" exclusively is itself an indication of a preferred "conceptual belief system." It is tantamount to saying: "I wish to exclude other belief systems, for I will brook no rivals to my own."

BB, my constant delight! I think you go to far with that statement. What the scientist is saying is more like: "Give me a theory based on evidence I can see, and reasoning I can follow, and I will consider it science. If you give me only your unsupported conjectures, based on your feelings, that's fine, and I may even share your views; but we both know it's not science."

90 posted on 11/08/2002 7:17:27 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: betty boop
Exactly! Thank you for the heads up!

IMHO, hostile resistance to inquiry is prima facie cause for inquiry – no matter the subject: evolution, campaign finance, product specifications, etc.

126 posted on 11/08/2002 9:21:00 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop; PatrickHenry
Let me expand on what Patrick said:

What the scientist is saying is more like: "Give me a theory based on evidence I can see, and reasoning I can follow, and I will consider it science. If you give me only your unsupported conjectures, based on your feelings, that's fine, and I may even share your views; but we both know it's not science."
You're saying the scientist is being unscientific by not considering "other" sources. But of course he's only being scientific. To yield to a demand to include hopelessly unverifiable material (visions, dreams, possession by spirits, and materials produced under such influences) would be unscientific.
218 posted on 11/08/2002 1:42:04 PM PST by VadeRetro
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