I've talked to a large range of people and business owners ove the course of three years. No one, without exception, has heard of an NRST. I find that folks have heard of it and are curious.
When I explained the structure of the NRST, all by one were horrified.
That is likely due in large part to your ignorane of the bill and your love of the income tax.
I invite anyone here to try talking to others about the nrst.
As do I, but I also encourage anyone here to learn about the subject before making wild assertions.
The point is, if the NRST were publicized, and explained ... it would be overwhelmingly rejected.
So why are you so worried about it then?
A complete cross section?
Yes. A complete cross section. You have presented no data contrary. You don't have to own a computer to be on FR. I don't own this computer.
Please point out the except from HR2525, the active bill, where poor people will not have to pay the NRST.
Man you really know nothing about the bill. I'll let you look it up yourself on the thomas-loc site, or you'll blame me for posting links. All individuals, regardless of income level, will pay no tax on the necessities of life. If you don't believe me you just have to look it up by searhing hr2525 on the thomas-loc site that contains legislation.
No tax on necessities. Each family receives the tax due on necessites in advance each month (prebate). Hence no tax on necessites. The "onerous paperwork" you mention does not exist. "Onerous paperwork" is what the income tax gives us. If you want to get the prebate, you simply provide the number of adults and kids in your household to the SSA so they know how much to send you. Onerous? Sheesh
If you eleminated your fed and FICA how much would that offset the purchases you normally make during that same period.
This doens't make sense.
And you're wrong, you are not required ever to ask for a prebate. You are free to skip it. No problem. The SSA keeps up with SS#s of recipients today, they'll do it under the nrst too. No IRS needed because THERE'S NO DAMN REASON TO TRACK INCOME! Get it through your head!
WT, netiquette flag.
William Terrell: When I explained the structure of the NRST, all by one were horrified. 721
That is likely due in large part to your ignorance of the bill and your love of the income tax.
He can't even get it right on this forum where there's a ton of supporting information so as to help him not get it wrong on this thread. He is either ignorant of important points or he chose to deceive the reader. Knowing that to include a key point would refute one of his deceptions. You identified that in your last response as shown below:
William Terrell: ...have larger than average incomes, exactly the ones that can tolerate a sales tax and still be able to buy most of what they have in the past 717
Principled: Oops, Will. You forgot that poor folks have negative or zero tax rates under nrst. Who you tryin' to fool? 719
He didn't fool me. I was on to him from the get go. Thus the reason for my first post to him: "To all readers, a simple response is all that is needed. Read the Americans for Fair Tax at fairtax.org."
I hazard to guess his vested interest in the present tax system -- tax accountant? tax lawyer? bureaucrat? sells tax avoidance information? He claims to have talked to a lot of people about the NRST and "all by [sic] one were horrified". How many of them have yet to understand that the reason they were likely horrified was not because of the NRST but rather, because of William Terrell's ignorance or intent to deceive them. Oh well, it's not my or your credibility on the line.
That is likely due in large part to your ignorane of the bill and your love of the income tax. I've read every word of it. Have you. Then answer me this: if the NRST collections at a certain percentage didn't maintain the set (the current level at the initial implimentation of HR 2525) level of social security, what, by law would have to happen?
As do I, but I also encourage anyone here to learn about the subject before making wild assertions.
As you evidently need to.
So why are you so worried about it then?
Because people, as evidenced by the response of many on FR, will not research the bill and the law it will spawn, much less the implication of that law. It will be advertised as a "FairTax", a misleading and attempted preconditioning tactic at the onset.
It's drawbacks will not be discussed except in backwater opinion pages that nobody reads. They will be enticed by carrots (poor won't have to pay the tax[and no, getting it back is not like not having to pay it], you won't have to fill out forms again) designed to communicate to the most base emotion in the human race, greed, fear, jelousy.
Some of the reasons. If wanted to type more I could go on. You know people, or you should.
You don't have to own a computer to be on FR. I don't own this computer.
I'm sure that you're a pauper. I'm also sure that one who is an employee in a job that allows them to use a company computer fits the profile.
So, poor people do have to pay the tax. They just have to fill those forms you hate so much to do it. I guess you don't mind them having to do paperwork. A little misleading, don't you think?
How do you know they aren't onerous? Have you seen the design? The bill states the minimum information that has to be filled in, but you know the government, or you should. You need to read the bill. I posted an analysis of it a couple years ago. Look it up in the archives.
And you're wrong, you are not required ever to ask for a prebate. You are free to skip it. No problem. The SSA keeps up with SS#s of recipients today, they'll do it under the nrst too. No IRS needed because THERE'S NO DAMN REASON TO TRACK INCOME! Get it through your head!
Oh, sure you can skip it and be liable for the full impact of the sales tax on everything new. No reason for an IRS? What kind of organization do you think will handle the filling of all those claims, executed under penalty of perjury, and regulatte the honesty with which they are filled out?
Do you realize taht the SS system is a socialist system that tracks every one from birth to death and takes their substance? And you are angry at the income tax.
I don't "love the income tax". I don't want the income tax. I don't want to replace it with anything. I want to stop funding Socialist America. Do you scan that? Good. Please try to remember it.
This doens't make sense.
It's real simple. If a NRST replaces income taxes, you will no longer have to pay fed and FICA. So you would get your pay without fed and FICA taken out. You have a pay period. Add up the fed and FICA for that pay period and get a total. Assume 30% increase in the prices of all the things you buy in that pay period. Can you still buy what you would be used to buying in that pay period. Maybe, or maybe you could, but what happens if your car has to go into the shop. Goods and services (+parts), remember?
