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To: DallasMike
A canon is the standard by which other things are measured.

Agreed.

yet not once does Jesus appeal to tradition or the rules of the religious authorities.

Off hand, I don't know if that is entirely accurate, but your point is well taken. Obviously, the Word of God found in Holy Scripture is above any human law or tradition, even of an ecclessial source. I am not aware of anybody on these threads that would deny this - Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant. Human traditions and customs - even those in the Church - are not necessarily bad, but cannot contradict God's Word.

Read Matthew 4 for the story of Christ's temptation by Satan. Jesus certainly could have appealed to Himself, but three times He chose to use Scripture as His final authority.

But of course! I'm not denying the authority of the Holy Scriptures. We are to believe that Christ is in every page of Scripture. "Ignorance of Scripture is ingorance of Christ" as per St. Jerome. Also note that even Satan will try to use Scripture for his own purposes. Satan even tries to quote the Scriptures against our Lord to tempt Him!

Note that the thrust of Matthew 15 is to religious authorities who used their religious traditions to usurp Scripture.

Agreed, but I'm wondering what your point is. For example later you state that:

...but Jesus told them that Scripture was the final authority.

Well, actually He didn't. He did state: In this way you have made God's word null and void by means of your traditions.

I assume that you are trying to make a point concerning the contention of the Catholic Church that the Word of God is found both in Holy Scripture and Sacred Tradition? Our Lord is talking about human traditions above and not what the Catholic Church means when She points to Sacred Tradition. Note that, in the Church, valid traditions and customs necessarily develop as well, though they are not the same as Sacred Tradition and are only valid to the extent that they are correctly correlated with the Word of God. The Church, with protection of the Holy Spirit, has to constantly adjudicate these developments as they occur. Sacred Tradition and Holy Scripture are of the same cloth, so to speak, they are flip sides of the same coin. By definition they cannot contradict one another but only complement each other. Think of "Tradition" as the guiding force by the Magisterium of the Church in interpreting Scripture. This whole thread is a case in point.

The article itself is about an ossuary box that could have been associated with one of our Lord's Apostles. Some on this thread immediately jumped on it as "proof" that the Catholic Church is wrong in teaching that Mary the Mother of God is a perpetual virgin. Neglecting a commentary on the ridiculousness of that "proof", let's just say that the box was a prop to drive the discussion to the Church's belief. But why the argument?

Because Holy Scripture does not explicitly state that Mary was a perpetual virgin - note the italics. Problem is, Holy Scripture doesn't deny it either. I believe this teaching is implicitly contained in Scripture, and the Church, when it was "early" as now, does too. Others obviously don't. But who has the authority to infallibly state the Truth? God through Christ in the Power of the Holy Spirit does. But how? Through His Divinely instituted Church which He founded and of which Christ is the Head and the Holy Spirit Her Soul. Even the Scriptures themselves state that the Church is the "pillar and foundation of Truth" in St. Paul's 1st Letter to Timothy, and Christ Himself states that He will be with Her "always, till the close of the ages" as well as promising the Paraclete to guide Her in all Truth. Think of Sacred Tradition as the Church's way of living out the Sciptures through time, fleshing out teachings not explicitly given or denied in the Holy Scriptures. This is not the same as "inventing" teachings. The Church cannot do that. The fulness of the Gospel, the deposit of Faith of Divine Revelation has been given to the Apostles in the Holy Scriptures and Sacred Tradition. These are not in an either/or struggle. The Holy Spirit continues to guide and protect the Church in interpreting and bringing this Revelation, this Faith, to the world, and in developing and living out an ever deeper understanding of the Mysteries of God's Plan for mankind found in His Word.

The early Church had ir right when they called Scripture canon, or the measuring rod.

Indeed, Yes! But note that the early Church appealed to both Sacred Tradition and Holy Scripture as the Word of God to be followed.

393 posted on 11/03/2002 5:52:27 PM PST by TotusTuus
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To: TotusTuus
Our Lord is talking about human traditions above and not what the Catholic Church means when She points to Sacred Tradition.

Nice, thoughtful response. Thank you.

I would argue that the religious leaders of Jesus' day thought that their traditions were sacred, too. The test is whether they nullify Scripture. Protestants (well, many of us) would argue that things like purgatory, praying to saints, and the various Marian beliefs do contradict Scriptures, at least at times. I can take you to Catholic churches in Dallas that I love and consider to be firmly based in the Scriptures, but I can also take you to Catholic churches (especially Hispanic) that I believe would shock you with their practices.

402 posted on 11/03/2002 6:57:26 PM PST by DallasMike
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