The fact remains, and it is irrefutable, that Jerome translated the deuterocanonicals along with the rest of the Vulgate.
The fact remains, and it is irrefutable, that three councils -- Rome, Hippo, and Carthage -- at the end of the 4th century placed the deuterocanonicals with the rest of Scripture. Not coincidentally, they are also the councils that fixed the NT canon.
The fact remains, and it is irrefutable, Cardinal Cajetan's alleged opinion to the contrary notwithstanding, that the Council of Florence in the 15th century, a full century before Trent, cited them in their list of canonical books.
Remember, if you accept the "deuterocanonical" books as Scripture, you have to believe the following passage:
"If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore." (Tobit 6:5-8)
No, Mike. You obviously have the exegetical subtlety of a sledgehammer. What I "have to believe" is that, according to the story (and that's what it is, a story or parable), an angel told that to Tobit. I stand on the side of Jerome, Athanasiusm, Origen, Epiphanius, Basil the Great, Melito, Gregory of Nazianzen, Hilary of Poitiers, and many others in rejecting these kinds of superstitions.
I wouldn't stand with Origen on much of anything if I were you. He's useful mainly as a witness to the belief of the church in his age -- you know, Christ truly present in the Eucharist, the sacrament of confession, the baptism of infants ... I'm sure you've read him and agree with him on all of those things, since you claim to "stand with him." For your sake, I do hope you don't stand with him on his more notorious claim(s) to fame.
Hippo and Carthage proclaimed that the Septuagint versions of 1 Esdras and 2 Esdras are canonical. In the Septuagint, 1 Esdras is the Apocryphal additions to Ezra while 2 Esdras is the Jewish verion of Ezra-Nehemiah from the Jewish canon. However, the Council of Trent omits the Septuagint version of 1 Esdras and maintains that 1 Esdras is actually Ezra from the Jewish canon and 2 Esdras is Nehemiah from the Jewish canon! Further, Hippo and Carthage state that Solomon wrote 5 books of the Old Testament when in actuality he wrote only 3.I wouldn't stand with Origen on much of anything if I were you.If that's not enough, the Council of Rome did not include Baruch even though Hippo and Carthage and Trent did. Some, to gloss over the inconvenient omission, have maintained that Baruch was counted by Rome as part of Jeremiah, but there's no evidence of that.
It looks like I just refuted your irrefutable facts.
Okay, so what about the rest? Do you discredit them as well?No, Mike. You obviously have the exegetical subtlety of a sledgehammer.
Maybe so, but at least I know my church history.