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To: Mr. Lucky
Luther, and other Protestants, relied upon Jewish rabbinical tradition to establish the proper texts of the Old Testament.

Sorry, but Job, Hebrews and James are all in our Bibles. Tobit, Judith, 1st Maccabbees, 2nd Maccabees, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus and Baruch are the books The Jewish tradition did not include in canonical scripture, which tradition has been followed by Protestants.

The problem is that after Christ there were TWO traditions. One started by Jews who accepted Christ and converted other nations and the other one which rejected Him and developed Talmudic Judaism.

The first of those two traditions kept the deuterocanonical books for many centuries. Only in XVI century Protestants arose who trusted more the second tradition in matter of Old Testament. For some reason Protestants could not get the New Testament that way and they had to rely on the first one :)

The leaders of future Talmudic Jews met in the 2nd century and rejected the books like Maccabbees (where the Hanukkah is described) or Wisdom. Around year 800 AD Jews split into radical Talmudists (the majority today) and into Karaits who reject the authority of Talmud. This led to the further redactions, especially that diacritical signs were added at that time. The Masoretic/Talmudic version of that time is the source of the Protestant versions.

283 posted on 11/01/2002 4:24:23 PM PST by A. Pole
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To: A. Pole
The Jewish Canonical tradition was established by the 1st Century AD. It is that Canonical tradtion which has been adopted by Protestants.
285 posted on 11/01/2002 4:41:57 PM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: A. Pole; berned; Polycarp
A. Pole is a bit more candid than I am. Since he has posted what I believe to be the truth as to the source of two canons to choose from, you might also try your hand at explaining why, more than a thousand years after Christianity had settled upon the larger canon including the deuterocanonicals known as apocrypha (in, yes, the Reformation TRADITION), Luther came along and decided to go with the short version which, coincidentally, allowed him to exclude Maccabees and its reference to the worthiness of praying and offering sacrifice for the souls of the dead, among other unLutheral ideas contained in the blacklisted books of Scripture. He also called the Epistle of James (apparently James the Just whose alleged ossuary is the the issue of this thread) an "Epistle of Straw" but even Luther did not dare to chuck any recognized books of the New Testament.

Also, as Polycarp has repeatedly requested, answer #1, #206 and the other two posts as to which he has requested your answers in vain. Your specific response?

304 posted on 11/01/2002 6:37:19 PM PST by BlackElk
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