Posted on 10/28/2002 12:38:49 PM PST by Stand Watch Listen
Qualifying as an "expert marksman" is no extraordinary achievement for soldiers in the Army.In basic training and usually once a year, soldiers have to qualify with their service weapon. To earn their "expert" badge, they've got to hit 36 out of 40 targets from distances of 50 to 300 meters, officials said.
Soldiers and former soldiers said it's not a particularly tough test. And they said it shouldn't be read as any indication that D.C. sniper suspect John Muhammad achieved any unusual level of proficiency during his time in the Army.
"This expert badge this guy got is completely meaningless," said Gene Econ, a retired infantry major who trains soldiers in marksmanship. "The public needs to know that in the Army, that's pretty much meaningless."
Shooting a rifle, using camouflage and concealment are among the fundamental skills that all soldiers learn in their nine weeks of basic training, soldiers, veterans and Army officials said.
"You shoot from different positions at different targets," Spc. Vicente Hidalgo said Thursday after a haircut at Bell's Barber Shop II in Tillicum. "You learn aiming, breathing and holding the weapon steady."
He said 95 percent of soldiers pass the basic rifle marksmanship course. Others said about one in five qualify as expert.
"They train you on that a lot," said Hidalgo, who works in the pharmacy at Madigan Army Medical Center. "There are a few people who are too nervous to do it."
After the course, he said, anybody would be able to shoot a target 100 yards away - the range from which the D.C. sniper is reported to have shot his victims.
Don Kell, 63, an Army and Vietnam veteran from Tillicum, agreed, saying he can hit "a nickel or even a dime from 100 yards away."
While in the Army, Kell said, he qualified with several firearms including M-1 and M-16 rifles.
The Pentagon said Muhammad, a combat engineer, qualified expert on the M-16 and with hand grenades. He was last stationed at Fort Lewis in 1994.
Qualifying as an expert marksman and becoming a sniper are "apples and oranges," said Lt. Col. Stephen Barger, the Fort Lewis spokesman.
Sniper training involves a lot more than shooting, officials said. Candidates are put through a five-week course, screened for psychiatric and emotional problems, and must have advanced infantry skills.
Soldiers with disciplinary problems are kicked out of the program, officials said.
Muhammad did not receive sniper training in the Army, the Pentagon said in a news release.
"This guy's ability to point a rifle barrel, hit a 20-inch-by-30-inch target from 100 yards, firing with the barrel stabilized with a tripod ... there's no marksmanship ability involved in that at all," said Econ, who helps train snipers at Fort Lewis. "There is a sick, demented, murdering brain that will never be cured."
That's about right. The news that qualifying "expert" is somehow a gimme would come as a surprise to a great many soldiers seeking additional promotion points, or the Expert Infantry Badge. 36 of 40 is tough, and usually requires many trips to the range and several hundred rounds.
The DC shooter wasn't a "sniper" - but he was a competent marskman. Every "expert" that climbs on the "my grandma can shoot better" bandwagon is doing a disservice to the training profession.
If it's that easy, we certainly don't need "experts" to train our soldiers or police, they can get all the training they need from reading Soldier Of Fortune.
This article is cr*p.
I spent 9 years in the army. I always fired expert. In fact in Basic Training I fired a perfect 40. And I'm mighty proud of it, too. In order to do that I had to hit about 4 (if I remember right) targets that were 300 meters distant.
The part that is true about the article is that the expert badge is meaningless. I know for a fact that there was quite a bit of cheating at the range. Since range scores translate directly to promotion points, a good score is important. And since scoring is done by your buddy, a good score is easily achievable.
But to make a blanket statement that the expert badge is meaningless, bothers me to a certain extent. Many of the expert badges out there are meaningless because they're not genuine. My badge is genuine and therefor I take exception to the comment.
How many are phony? I don't know, but I bet it's a high percentage.
I have a nephew in the army now, he says that some of the ranges have electronic scoring.
I was wondering what you mean by your buddy scores for you. The only time I saw manual scoring was when zeroing ranges were used to qualify.
Active installation qualification ranges should all be automated ERETS (Enhanced Remote Electronic Target System) ranges that count hits/misses automatically, via computerized sensors.
Your score cannot be "doctored" without WILDLY obvious tampering.
While, I'll agree that shooting expert (which I've not done all that often) is, by no means, "Not a big deal", it does not indicate mastery of the weapon, techniques, concealment, and mindset to the degree that would equate an "Expert" shooter to a sniper.
Here's for mandatory firearms training in ALL schools.
It's more important than knowing how to roll a condom on a bannana.
You obviously don't go to the range with the kind of people I do. That bunch will go through a few thousand on a good *day* at the range (single trip).
A thousand rounds of milsurp .223 is only a couple hundred bucks. That's very little for the gov't to spend, and a few range trips are an awfully small price to pay in time, for someone who makes their living as a soldier.
For professional soldiers in combat arms MOS's, the level of shooting ability to obtain an expert badge should be damn near a requirement. Or at least for anyone close to infantry.
I only saw the pop-up ranges that were scored electroically (except when 25m zeroing ranges were used. Anyway, people could still cheat by saving some of their practice rounds and adding them to your 30 round magazine that should have had 20 rounds in it. (They usually gave you a pratice session in prone and foxhole positions.)
I only saw the pop-up ranges that were scored electroically (except when 25m zeroing ranges were used. Anyway, people could still cheat by saving some of their practice rounds and adding them to your 30 round magazine that should have had 20 rounds in it. (They usually gave you a pratice session in prone and foxhole positions.)
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