The Barbarians at the Gates of Paris (The Underclass in France)

City Journal ^ | Fall 2002 | Theodore Dalrymple

[shrinkermd]

A very long read. Marvelously written and gives a different picture of France from what the main stream press gives us.

Theodore Dalrymple is a psychiatrist who lives in the UK. He has written extensively on the underclass and a host of social problems. His essays are easily read but long. The essays have the virtue of having a personal touch followed by facts and inductive reasoning.

[El Sordo]

The Warren Court didn't die, they just went to France.

[windcliff]

ping

[Mr. Jeeves]

Great article. This line struck me:

Several things struck me about the incident: the youths’ sense of invulnerability in broad daylight...

Years ago, such fools would have been physically detained (and likely beaten) by local men, a population evidently in just as short supply in France as in America. Fear of retribution from the local populace is the only real deterrent to crime - once it vanishes (in societies where people are forbidden to defend themselves) the criminals become wolves among sheep.

[EggsAckley]

EXCELLENT! Thank you so much for posting this. Would that all of us here at FR could write only half as well as this author.

I've seen those big housing projects, from a distance, and had the feeling that they were little more than immigrant ghettos. The French are so..........words escape me. :o)

[Burkeman1]

Great Post! I was dimly aware of "La Zone" from a couple of mentions in other articles but I wasn't aware of how bad it actually is. Thus is revealed the hypocrisy of the French Left and their criticism of this Country and our "underclass." From the description in that article the worst housing project in America sounds better off. I am reminded of a Black American and former communist (whose name I can't recall at the moment), after visiting the Soviet Union in the 70's and walking around Moscow's enourmass depressing housing projects said to himself "Shit- this is what I want to turn America into?"

[alethia]

I guess the French don't carry guns. That would be a powerful deterrent. Of course, you have to USE (or be prepared to use it) the gun for this to be truly effective. (sarcasm off)

[knews_hound]

Bump, I have to read this, facinating

[Consort]

The French refuse to realize that they are a Third World Nation.

[Burkeman1]

Lack of gun ownership in Europe and tight gun control laws there is a major reason why burgarly, even when a home is occupied by it's residents, is far higher than in America.

But after reading this article and seeing how little control the police or the state has over "La Zone" and the incentive for police not to record crimes- I wonder if they misrpesent the levels of violent crime as well and even murder. I wonder how many murders are even reported or investigated in France? Could they have a higher murder rate than America?

[Man of the Right]

If you go to Paris and stay at least a couple of days, the odds are overwhelming you'll be robbed or will witness a robbery, often in front of a flic armed with a machine pistol. I'm 3 for 3 my last 3 visits.

In terms of tolerance for street crime, the authorities make David Dinkins look like Rudy Guliani on a day Guliani's former wife denied him sex.

[onedoug]

Dalrymple, "Life At The Bottom" bump!

There is no crime. No good, nor evil. It is all merely morally relativistic redistribution of socio-economic circumstance.

[alethia]

I'd say that you could be right on the money with your observations, Burkeman1. We all know that these statistics can be manipulated by unscrupulous politicians and "paid off" bureaucrats. We've even experienced some of that here in the good ole US.

Albanians ran rampant in Greece and Italy due to gun control and lax border control.

[Burkeman1]

I think the potential is even grater for blatant lies about crime and media silence in France than here in America. France is a semi authoritarian state ruled by about 1000 famlies and has been for centuries. It has only a veneer of democracy. The population are sheep and even people who "work" in France are partially on the dole.

[knews_hound]

Did you read this yet?

I cannot believe it has not been on the top of the bumps.

Gripping writing and a chilling read.

Cheers

knews hound

[knighthawk]

No, I didn't see it. So thanks for the ping.

[knighthawk]

Islamist proselytism flourishes in the prisons of France (where 60 percent of the inmates are of immigrant origin), as it does in British prisons; and it takes only a handful of Zacharias Moussaouis to start a conflagration.

Islam-list

If people want on or off this list, please let me know.

[TopQuark]

Great post; thanks.

[FITZ]

I think people will start to understand the Spanish Inquisitions much better soon. There's only one way to rid your country of these people, the Spaniards were one of the only countries ever to free themselves of Islam.

[dennisw]

Great read and thanks for making the best passages bold-face.