Are teacher salary increases needed to improve student performance? Poll and Cal Thomas article

gogov ^ | Oct 20, 2002 | Cal Thomas

[BJungNan]

Are teacher salary increases needed to improve student performance?

- Yes. We can not expect to attract quality teachers without giving them adequate pay. 71%

- No. Teacher's are paid enough. It is time for teachers to show results. 18%

- It is not a matter of salaries. Student performance will not improve until parents have a choice of schools. 11%

Poll Link

Also good Cal Thomas editorial at same link. Interesting numbers

Excerpt: The teachers' unions and the rest of the government education monopoly regularly tell us that more spending and smaller classrooms are the answer to improved test scores. But the education establishment's own studies proves that is not the case...Goes on to explain numbers of dollars spent and the sagging result (Sad what a corrupt mess public education has become - my comment).

[1bigdictator]

Your title should read FREEP THIS LIBERAL POLL. More FReepers would participate... it was too easy to overlook your article w/ that title. But thanks for posting it.

[Principled]

It all boils down to allowing parents to have complete choice.

If they did, then salaries would go to market, as they should.

If they did, parents would end up with some of the responsibility for their kids' education, as they should.

[RAT Patrol]

Great Cal Thomas column. I messed up my vote. I should have said education won't improve until we get a choice. Quick over thorough bites me again, lol.

[stalin]

The problem is that begining teachers aren't paid enouph. That's why they can't attract good teachers. Pay is based on seniority. Also ,the farther you are from the students the more money you make.

[BJungNan]

The problem is that begining teachers aren't paid enough.

What do you mean not paid enough? $23,000 to $25,000 to start with three months off, medical and all other benefits is not enough of a starting salary? You are kidding, right?

[Slyfox]

The best schools have the best teachers. When schools jack around with the best teachers, they leave and find something better to do.

[tiamat]

I have known several teachers well, and until recently, have worked in a support capacity at my daughter's school.
Most teachers mean well, come into the career honestly wanting to TEACH.
However, soon after graduation and having a year or so under their belt, they come to realise that they are hamstrung by Admin, (who is there for the money and position) , idiot, bed-wetting parents, (who don't understand why THEY should see to it that Johnny completes his assignments), and the Board of Education, which is invariably made up of the same bed-wetters. ( These people, BTW, are often the ones who decide which text books teachers will be allowed to use....) Admin panders to idiot parents, and teachers are frustrated because under these conditions, and with no standards, and no back up, they CANNOT teach.
The much hated Union can do very little to actually help these teachers, as in this economy, most teachers I know will put up with the abuse rather than rock the boat. Eventually, they burn out.
Furthermore, so many of our kids come to school as ill-behaved savages, and so often in the earlier grades, teachers must spend the vast majority of thier time playing policeman. Again, often at odds with admin. All because most parents have not taught their children a core of decent maners and behavior.
Add to that many children, even in affluent communities, come to school, having had insufficient sleep, are dirty, often without breakfast, etc, it is next to impossible to do anything with them. many of them also come from homes with odd living arrangements, or parents who are broken up, or substance abuse is happening in the home. .
I came within a hair of going into Early Ed, because I LIKE children, and have always had a bent for imparting information, and seeing how it has all turned out, I am very glad I did not. I would probably be in prison for assualt on a parent or Admin puke by now!
A teacher with a vocation is not ALLOWED to teach today! Most teachers are disillusioned and frankly deserve combat pay.
you could not pay me enough as things currently stand, to accept a teaching post in our public school!

Tia
Getting down off of her soap-box now.....

[Who dat?]

$23,000 to $25,000 to start with three months off, medical and all other benefits is not enough of a starting salary? You are kidding, right?

Our local schools start them in the mid 40's and have a 180 day school year - that's 180 days for teachers, students attend fewer days.

[Dutch Boy]

They raised the wages of teachers in Rochester NY several years ago. It did ZERO to help the kids. The local news reported no long ago that only 23% of an entire 8th grade passed the standardized english test. Several schools are nothing more than thug recepticals. But the teachers are well paid and I guess that makes it okay.

[Thoro]

Are teacher salary increases needed to improve student performance?

Yes! Because throwing massive amounts of money at a problem without any accountability for results always fixes it! Heh, ahem.

[tiamat]

I agree.
I was fired from my position by Admin because I dared to break up a fist-fight between two little boys. The perpetrator is a known animal, and while I laid hands on him to get him off of the other boy, I made SURE I did not hurt either HIM, or the child he was beating on. One thing I cannot STAND is a bully! I was quite angry, and sent him to the office with a scolding. The perp's parents complained, ( because I had touched him) and I was sacked immediately. Of course, I would have been sacked if the Little Darling had actually managed to damage someone as well. Admin, you see is terrified of litigation, and does not give a rodent's hind-end about what is RIGHT!

Tia

[BeAllYouCanBe]

"Several schools are nothing more than thug recepticals."

Were you talking about the teachers or students?

Around here in CA your talking about the teachers. Really, they had a student protest that got out of hand and one of the teachers was encouraging the students to defy the police who had been called to restore order.

[stalin]

No : I'm not kidding. If we want good teachers how in the world do you expect to pay them 23-25k for somone with a masters degree in somthing other than under water basket weaving.

I just stopped teaching math and science because I can make a whole lot more money in the private sector. I'm tired of not making enouph.

If you want science and math teacher then maybe you should pay them more than a typing teacher ? If you're a civics teacher that's been around for 15 years you're making 70k while a new teacher with a masters in Phisics would make 23k. They don't exist because they can make so much more right out of collage. The unions wont allow a math teacher to make more than a PE teacher. In fact they make less because math teachers are either new or unqualified because of the low pay.

[shetlan]

"Over the years as the NEA developed its left-leaning, anti-traditional values political machine, the education of American children has suffered a tragic decline.

Headlines have told that scores on the SAT and ACT college entrance exams were dropping. Functional illiteracy in cities has reached epidemic levels. The crisis in education has steadily worsened.

The solution the NEA and its political supporters offer regularly is "Give us more money!" --John Stormer (school superintendent)

[PhilipFreneau]

There was a major study on this issue 40 or 50 years ago. The conclusion was, there is NO correlation between academic performance and funding. Is anyone familiar with this study?

[BJungNan]

If you want science and math teacher then maybe you should pay them more than a typing teacher ? If you're a civics teacher that's been around for 15 years you're making 70k while a new teacher with a masters in Phisics would make 23k. They don't exist because they can make so much more right out of collage. The unions wont allow a math teacher to make more than a PE teacher. In fact they make less because math teachers are either new or unqualified because of the low pay.

You make the point that this is not about money. You could thrown all the money the teacher's could ever want at this problem and it will not go away under the present system.

The system is broken and until it is fixed and no matter what the teachers complain about, they don't deserve another dime. Not one! It is their union, not mine. I hold up my end of the bargain when I pay my property taxes and I am at the limit of my participation